Re: [bcn2004] Dialog with K.
Loganathan Part-1: About some words from "Avesta"
Dear Dr. K. Loganathan,
Thank you for your
response. You said: "But meanwhile let me mention that it is very unlikely
that the Sumerians were Turkish people for they described themselves as
"black people" the 'sag gi-ga' that occurs in many places."
To this I say that
you are mistaken. Below you will find the picture of a portion of what is
called "The Sumerian Standard of UR". On the complete artifact there
are many more similar Sumerians shown than we see on this picture. When
we examine this colorful picture we find that Sumerians were totally
"white" people. There is no "blackness" about them
except that their "hair" was "black". Many sources on
Sumerians report that they were "black headed" or
"black-haired" people meaning that they had "DARK HAIR on their
head". This information is found in many sources and there are
hundreds of them on the internet. Turanian Tur/Turk peoples are known to be
"dark haired" people with a white complexion. As for the term
"SAG GI-GA", I am inclined to believe the depictions of Sumerian
peoples as shown on the Sumerian Standard of UR rather than the term "sag
gi-ga". As I said in my previous writing, I have many doubts about the
correct and truthful presentation of the "Sumerian" texts as have
been presented to us. But, as they say, pictures speak louder than words. Here
we have part of the Standard of Ur.
You can also visit some other URLs such as:
http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/pe_buyer.cgi?imageid=130512
http://www.crystalinks.com/sumergods.html
Additionally below
is given a citing from the URL address of <
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumeria > which
gives us the following:
"Background
The term "Sumerian" is actually an exonym (a
name given by another group of people), first applied by the Akkadians. The Sumerians described themselves as "the black-headed people" (sag-gi-ga) and
called their land Ki-en-gi, "place of the civilized lords". The Akkadian word Shumer possibly represents this name in dialect.
The Sumerians, with a language, culture, and, perhaps, appearance different
from their Semitic neighbors
and successors are widely believed to have been invaders or migrants, although
it has proven difficult to determine exactly when this event occurred or the
original geographic origins of the Sumerians."
Polat Kaya: People
who are "black" by nature are called "black people", not
"black-headed" people. "Black-headedness" can only
mean only thing, and that is having "black hair" on their head. You
will find many internet sites identifying Sumerians as "black-haired"
people.
Labelling Sumerians
as "people related to the Africans and most probably the
Ethiopeans" can
only be seen as a distortion of known facts about the Sumerians. As you
noted above, the Sumerian Standard of UR speaks differently. I get the
feeling that such mistaken interpretations are another attempt to distance
these ancient Sumerians from their Turanian Tur/Turk kins.
As for the darker
skin of Tamils and other Dravidian peoples, that is, if they were Turanians to
start with and I think they were, it is quite natural for Turanian peoples who
moved into an equatorial geographical zone some thousands of years ago, to
acquire a darker complexion. Nature provides the dark pigment under the
skin of such people who live in such geographical zones to overcome the ill
effects of the ultraviolet rays of the Sun. It is a self protection mechanism
of the body.
As for your other
questions, I have said it before and I will say it again. The so-called
name "GILGAMESH", which is the earliest known epic of man dating back
to probably seven + thousand years, was originally "BILGAMESH" which
is a Turkish word. Evidently, it has been suppressed as many other obvious
Turkish words were - such as TUR. The name BILGAMESH (GILGAMESH)
antedates not only the words of Avesta language but also many other Aryan and
Semitic words. In fact even the name "GILGAMESH" is Turkish
except that the vowel "A" in the front has been dropped. With
the missing vowel reinserted, the name becomes "AGILGAMESH"
(AKILGAMESH) which is another Turkish expression equivalent to
"BILGAMESH" both having the same or similar meaning. Thus when all of
these word alterations were taking place in the Middle East, the Turkish
language was the widely used and dominantly spoken language in the area.
Best wishes to you
and to all,
Polat Kaya
K. Loganathan wrote:
Dear Polat Kaya
Thank-you and I am looking forward to further posts on this dialog. But meanwhile let me mention that it is very unlikely that the Sumerians were Turkish people for they described themselves as "black people" the 'sag gi-ga' that occurs in many places. This shows that they were certainly not the Europeans or Mongloids but people related to the Africans and most probably the Ethiopeans. To this day the Dravidians in India remain dark with striking identity in appearance to the Ethiopens. Many South Indian can easlity be taken for Ethiopeans.
Now in your futher posts I will also appreciate original references to actual Texts and with a possible date for them. Even though Sumerian languages existed in the Middle East till around the 500 BC or so, most of the texts I use are from the 3rd millennium BC with reasonably well dated by the Archeologists who dug up the clay tablets.
As I have said before whatever the prehistory of Sumerian, from about 3000 BC where written texts are available, we can see that Sumerian is Archaic Tamil for reasons I have already given. I can give more evidences in this direction if required.
Now this does not deny the possiblity that there is Turkish substratum underlying the Language of Avesta and so forth. However since these texts are dated around 1500 BC or so, you have to show how the words are actually Turkish by citing texts in Turkish that are earlier than Avesta.
I shall show later that some of these words go back to Sumerian roots and which might have entered the Avestan through the cuneiform script they borrowed.
Any way I thank you for taking so much pain to create this dialog in which I will certainly participate.
Loga
Polat Kaya <tntr@...> wrote: