Re: [bcn2004] Re: Part-1:
"Turkish-Sumerian kinship"
Dear John Halloran and friends,
Greetings. First of
all please you and all my readers accept my
apologies for
unintentionally sending an unfinished draft version of
this letter. I must
have accidentally hit the Send button instead of
the Save button. I
did not realize this until much later. By that
time distribution
had taken place. This mistake occurred when I had a
bad flu and I was
not at the top of my attention. If I may ask you
and all, please
disregard that first posting dated "Date:
2005
Hence, this is in
response to your second posting shown below in which
you said:
> "The TUR
sign is normally read either as d u m u, 'son, child', or as t
> u r, which has
verbal and adjectival meanings 'to be small' as well as
> meaning
'child; young (of herd animals); second in rank', but also has
> a reading as m
a r 5, according to Borger's latest Mesopotamisches
>
Zeichenlexikon, which would be a variant way to write a m a r, 'calf,
> young of an
animal', where a m a r or m a r 2 is normally written
> with the AMAR
sign."
Unfortunately your
explanation of TUR is not convincing at all. It
only tells us how
it was fudged some time in the past. It is a lame
explanation to
replace "TUR" with MAR or AMAR. Yet you yourself know
that the first two
signs of the Sumerian text are clearly identified
as
"Dingir.TUR" in the referenced tablet and this indicates that
"TUR"
was
"GOD". That is why he was described with a "DINGIR"
adjective in
front of it. While
this is the "fact", why would early readers of
Sumerian texts
replace it with AMAR or MAR? What was wrong with "TUR?
Why was this
alteration or replacement necessary, who did it and why?
And why do you
think that they have presented the truth? Is it
possible that we
have all been conned because some people wanted to
present a one sided
story about the ancient world?
Sumerians were
"Sun" and "Moon" worshipping people together with
creator
Sky-Father-God (ANU) from Turkish "HAN O" meaning "He is the
Lord" or even
"ANA O" meaning "mother she is". In ancient Turanian
religious
understanding, "GOD" had a "Duality" feature. Hence the
creator
"God" could be "father" as well as "mother". Thus
this
"duality"
is present in "Sumerian "ANU". Ancient Tur/Turk peoples were
also
"Sun" and "Moon" worshipping people together with a creator
Sky-Father-God
described in Turkish with expressions such as HAN-O,
BIR-O (PER-O),
ATA-O, and others all referring to Sky-Father-God
(Gök-ATA-Tengir).
Surely the Sumerians were not that stupid to call
"GOD" a
"herd of animals", or a "child" or the planet
"Mercury" which
is a small
"dot' next to the disc of the SUN. They must have had a
reason to call the
Sky-God TUR a "Bull" as a logo. First of all they
knew that the Sun
was the only reason that the earth is the way it is
with human beings
and human beings talking about "GOD". Without the
SUN, we would not
be here and hence we would not be carrying on with
this conversation.
Ancient Sumerians and other Turanian TUR/TURKs
knew this fact and
they immortalized it by calling the Sun as "O-GOZ"
(OGOZ/OGUZ) meaning
"that eye". As I have noted in many of my
writings earlier,
they regarded the Sun and the Moon as the "eyes" of
a "Super
Being" up in the sky which they called Tanri OGOZ (OGUZ,
OKUZ, OKUS).
Ancient Turanians had the tradition of personifying the
Sky deities with
animals - but this did not mean that they were
actually worshipping
that animal although that animal would be
regarded as sacred.
The name "OGUZ" was homonym with the Turkish name
"OKUZ"
(OGUZ) meaning "OX" which was "Bull" in the wild. Thus a
"Bull"
concept was embedded in the name OGUZ. Hence, one prominent
logo of the Sky-God
was a "Bull" icon, but this kind of simile occurs
readily in Turkish.
This is also
verified in the Turkish name "TUR" for the Sky-God. In
ancient Turkish
another word for "ox" (okuz) was "UT". [1] Thus, the
name UTU as the
name for Sun-God" in "Sumerian" was homonym for
Turkish expressions:
a) "UT-U"
("OT-O" / "OD-O") meaning "it is "fire" [2]
thus describing
the "Sun";
b) "UT-U"
meaning "it is ox" which is "bull" in the wild;
c) "UT-U"
(ÖD-O, ÖT-O meaning "it is time"; [3] and
d)
"ATA-U" (ATA O) meaning "he is father". Sun is a
"father" as a
"creator".
Similarly, the name
TUR for the Sky-God is a shortened form of these
Turkish expressions:
a)
"UTU-R" (UTU-ER) meaning "Sun man"; It is no wonder that the
Sumerians were
UTU-MAN meaning "Sun worshippers" - similar to the name
OTOMAN (OTTOMAN)
and TURMAN (TURKMEN) again indicating that they were
the descendants of
the Sun believers.
b) "U'TU
R" (O'du ER) meaning: b1) "He/She/It is man" referring to
and picturing the
Sky-God as "man", and b2) meaning "he/she is man"
thus referring to
"man" hence ennobling "man" as a "holy being".
This
is just like the
name "AMEN" (AMUN) the ancient Masar/Misir Sky-God
which is the
Turkish expression "O MEN" meaning "He is me" and "I am
Him". Thus
once again this Turkish expression likens God and man to
each other. That is
why "man" is sacred" and therefore "he/she must
not to be
killed".
c) "UT U
R" (UT U ER) meaning "Ox is that man" or "That man is bull"
referring to the
ancient Turanian "Sky-God". Turkish "ER" component
refers to the
"fathering" feature of the creator God.
d) More
importantly, I say, God "TUR" is a special way of regarding
the life, that is,
a fundamental principle that everything in life,
that is, from an
abstruct thought concieved in the mind, to atoms that
makeup everything
in the universe and the endless space that contains
them all, is
"Dingir.TUR" as the Sumerians said it and "Tengir TUR" as
the ancient
Tur/Turk peoples said it. Let me give you some examples
in present day
Turkish:
TANRI TUR meaning:
a) "God is TUR", b) "TUR is God", c) "It is God".
GÜN TUR meaning: a)
"Sun is TUR", b) "TUR is sun", c)
"it is sun".
AY TUR meaning: a)
"Moon is TUR", b) "Tur is moon",
c) "it is moon".
HAVA TUR meaning:
a) "Air is TUR", b) "TUR is air", c) "it is air",
GÖK TUR meaning: a)
"Sky is TUR", b) "TUR is sky", c) "it is sky".
SU TUR meaning: a)
"Water is TUR", b) "TUR is water",
c) "it is water".
ILDIZ TUR meaning:
a) "Star is TUR", b) "TUR is Star",
c) "it is star".
UT TUR meaning: a)
"Time is TUR", b) "TUR is time",
c) "it is time".
OT TUR meaning: a)
"Fire is TUR", b) "TUR is fire",
c) "it is fire".
OGUZ TUR meaning:
a) "OGUZ is TUR", b) "TUR is OGUZ",
c) "it is OGUZ".
AGUZ TUR meaning:
a) "SPEECH is TUR", b) "TUR is speech ",
c) "it is speech".
SÖZ TUR meaning: a)
"WORD is TUR", b) "TUR is word",
c) "it is word".
MEN TUR meaning: a)
"I am TUR", b) "TUR is me", c)
"it is me".
The list can be
endless. In short in this concept, "GOD TUR", that is,
"Dingir
TUR" / "Tengir TUR" was, still is and will always be
omnipotent,
omnipresent and in everything. That is why "GOD was TUR"
during the Sumerian
times and in Sumerian language, and "GOD is TUR in
Turkish". TUR
is the name for the Tur/Turk peoples of Turan and TUR
gives its name to "TURKISH".
Hence this very ancient Turanian
heritage, that is,
such a universal concept of GOD, has been
immortalized by the
Turkish language and will live in that language
forever. TUR is the
most widely used "suffix" in Turkish as it is seen
in above list.
Thus, this much about the concept of TUR should be
sufficient for
demonstrating our purpose.
Therefore, the
Turkish word "TUR" representing and/or personifying the
Sun-God, the
Moon-God and the Sky-Father-God is such an important
name
in Turkish and inherently
embodies the "bull" concept. However the
"bull"
concept is not associated with TUR because of the bull's
sexual prowess as
some "scholars" would like us to believe. This would
be called diverting
from the truth.
The ancient
Tur/Turk peoples also described the ancient Turanian
trinity Sky-God
concept by many names and/or epithets. One of the
names for the
Sun-God was the Turkish word "
another one was
"MOR" meaning "purple". "AK" meaning
"white" and
"SARI"
meaning "yellow" was also used.
The so-called
"Canaanites" (Kanaanite) and Phoenicians called their
God by the name
BAAL which is actually from Turkish "ABA-AL" (APA AL)
meaning
"Father RED" referring to the SUN. Turkish APA ==> PAPA ==>
BABA and
"grandfather".
They come to us since very ancient times. [4] And I
might add here that
all of those Canaanites and Phoenicians were
Turkish speaking
Tur/Turk peoples whether they were "Sun" believing or
"Wind"
believing or both. They were not "Semites" as the name is
associated with
Jewish people. These ancient peoples of
have been falsely
labelled under the disguising name "SEMITE" which is
a word like the
name "MOSLEM" within the umberalla of which many
different groups are gathered as a "melting pot". The same is true
with the word
SEMITE. The name "Semite" relates to the "wind-god"
EN-LIL which is
from Turkish expression "HAN-YEL" meaning "Lord Wind".
They are said to
have called their "God" by the name 'EL". EL is said
to be reagrded as
equivalent to BAAL. [5] This Semite God EL is so
much similar to
Turkish AL for Sun-God. Did
in common? The
answer would be a definite "yes". Both were from the
ancient Turkish
language and Turkish culture.
Zecharia Sitchin
reports the following:
"EL, however,
was not always an olden lord. One of his epithets was
"TOR"
(meaning "bull"), signifying, scholars believe, his sexual
prowess and his
role as Father of the Gods." [6].
This is very
enlightening. As Zecharia Sitchin states, there was a
"God" and
he was called "TOR" (TUR) and it was identified with the
"bull"
logo. This verifies my explanation above regarding "TUR"
having a
"bull" concept to it and also being the Sun-God (also
identified as
because of the
bull's sexual prowess and his role as Father of the
Gods" is not
convincing. Can anybody show what "bull" in the animal
kingdom fathered a
"God" or "Gods"? Of course not.
What kind of silly
explanation is this
and what kind of "god" are they talking about? Of
course those
members of human societies being in the position of a
"ruler", like a 'bull" is, have ennobled themselves by
calling
themselves
"god".
The implication of
"EL not always being an olden lord" is that this
name was concocted
later in time making it resemble the Turkish "
"EL" is
another Turkish word meaning "hand" in one case, and a short
form of Turkish
"YEL" meaning "wind" in another case. Both of which
apply to the
ancient "Semitic" religion because they were "wind"
believers rather
than "Sun" believers. But they had a free ride on the
shoulder of Turkish
to come up with a word "EL" for their God. It is
no wonder that in
many "Semitized" pictures they use a "tornado" sign
together with a
"hand" symbol coming out of the clouds. Greeks also
did the same
because they were also "wind-believing" wanderers of
ancient times. Hand
is "EL" in Turkish. Of course, "tornado" is one of
the strongest forms
of "wind" descending from clouds like a "hand of
god" in the
form of "YEL" (wind). It must also be remembered that the
famed King
AKHENATEN of ancient "
"hand"
symbols. As can be seen even there, the Turkish word "EL"
meaning hand"
was present. So this concept of God's Hand, either
represented with
the Sun's rays or a twister coming out of a cloud -
touching and
destroying everything in its path, must be sourced from
the ancient Turkish
speaking Turanian world.
Thus it is clear
that the much older Turkish name TUR (TOR) for "GOD"
preceeded the name
"EL" which itself was not Semitic just as the name
SEMITE is not
"Semitic". The name SEMITE is an anagram of Turkish word
"ESMETI"
meaning "it is blowing". Similarly, the word SEMITIC is a
restructured and
disguised form of the Turkish expression "ESME-CI-TI"
(ESMECIDI) meaning
"follower of the blowing wind". The root word
"ESME" is
the Turkish word "ESME" from Turkish verb "ESMEK" meaning
"to blow"
as in "wind blows". Thus the Turkish word ESME" has been
anagrammatized into
the word "SAM" (SEM) describing the "Semitics".
The following
excerpts from Zecharia Sitchin are important in what
they reveal.
"The
usurpation of Enlilship (long after the incident with ZU) was
accompanied by an
extensive Babylonian effort to forge the ancient
texts. The most
important texts were rewritten and altered so as to
make Marduk appear
as the Lord of Heavens, the Creator, the
Benefactor, the Hero, instead of Anu or Enlil or even Ninurta. Among
the texts altered
was the "Tale of Zu"; and according to the
Babylonian version,
it was Marduk (not Ninurta) who fought Zu. In this
version, Marduk
boasted: "Makhasti mokh il Zu" ("I have
crused the
skull of the god
Zu"). Clearly, then ZU could not have been Marduk
." [7]
"The gods then
proclaimed Marduk the supreme deity, and bestowed on
him the
"fifty
names" -the prerogatives and numerical rank of the Enlilship". [8]
What
"gods" are they talking about? Surely they would not be the
"celestial
deities" that came together and claimed
"Marduk" as the
Supreme deity. The
gathering must have been of those human beings who
called themselves
"gods" that made such a judgement because they had
religious and
political aims for themselves. Let us hear Zecharia
Sitchin again:
"There is
enough evidence to show that the Babylonian version of the
epic was a
masterful religious-political forgery of earlier Sumerian
versions, in which
Anu, Enlil, and Ninurta were the heroes." [9]
It is obvious that
the God ZU that has been destroyed by "Marduk" is
not only Turkic
"SU-HAN" (ZU-EN) meaning "Water Lord", but more
truthfully, must
have been the "UZ-EN", that is, Turkish "OGUZ-HAN".
Story has been
enwrapped into a mythology such that truth is not
visible clearly. In
fact the wind believing "Akkadians and
Babylonians",
that is, "Semites", destroyed the ancient Turanian
Sky-God
"UZ-TUR" (OGUZ-TUR) civilization when they overpowered
Sumerians. An ancient civilization that had been created along with
the Turanian religious concept. Thus they took
over this very ancient
civilization and
claimed it as their own.
You said in your
posting:
>
> It is false to
say that the reading t u r has been suppressed in
>
transliterating Sumerian texts, but it does mean 'small'. The name
> Marduk, from
amar-utu-ak, meaning 'bull-calf of the sun', could have
> been a name
for the god of the planet Mercury.
All the components
of "AMAR-UTU-AK" used to come up with the name
"MARDUK"
are Turkish where AK means "white", AMAR is Turkish "EMER"
meaning
"suckling one'. And UTU is as I explained above.
After all of these
and what Zecharia Sitchin writes above, do you
still think that my
claim that "TUR was suppressed" was "false"?
Additionally a God
concept as complex as one that embraces the whole
of the Universe,
the sun and the Moon and everything on earth that the
ancient Turanian
Sky-God TUR represents cannot be regarded as "small",
although it also
exists in the smallest space that an "ATOM" occupies.
Do you think that
the similarity of the name "ATOM" and the Turkish
word
"ATAM" meaning "my father" is a coincidence? I think not!. Don't
you think that
everything in the universe is made up of "ATOMS",
hence, ATOMS are
"ATAM" to us all? Hence can it not even be said that
the name ATOM is
from Turkish in origin? I hope you will join me in
these matters.
The SUN is a
"TRUE" God in our solar system which interests and
affects us all. Sun
is second in rank to that universal Sky-Father-God
(Gök-Ata-Tanri).
Hence, Sun the TUR or Sun the UTU should not be
diluted with jumbled
verbosity to an unimportant position among the
celestial deities.
The ancient Tur/Turk Sumerians were capable of
knowing that TUR
was the personification of ancient Turanian universal
Sky-God concept and
that is why they called him as "Dingir.TUR". If we
keep regarding the
ancients as not knowing very much as compared to
present man, we
will be conning only ourselves. Let us be honest about
it. History and
linguistics have not been truthful in their
presentation of the
ancient world, particularly with respect to
ancient Turanians
and their civilizations. Yet the modern world is
based mostly on
their civilizations and creations.
I hope this will
shed light on some of the misunderstandings and/or
misrepresentations
regarding Turkish-Sumerian kinship. Again, my
apologies to you and to all my readers for the
mixup with my
accidental and preliminary posting.
REFERENCES:
[1] Hüseyin Namik
Orkun, Eski Türk Yazitlari", Türk Dil Kurumu
Yayinlari:529,
[2] Hüseyin Namik
Orkun, Eski Türk Yazitlari", Türk Dil Kurumu
Yayinlari:529,
[3] Hüseyin Namik
Orkun, Eski Türk Yazitlari", Türk Dil Kurumu
Yayinlari:529,
[4] Polat Kaya,
"Traces of the Altaic Words "ATA", "APA",
"ANA" and
Their Derivatives
in the Languages of Some of the Native Peoples of
Americas" at
URL:
http://www.compmore.net/~tntr/ata_anain_natlangs.html
[5] Encyclopaedia Britannica,
1963 , Vol. 2, p. 942.
[6] Zecharia
Sitchin, "The 12th Planet",
p. 77.
[7] Zecharia
Sitchin, "The 12th Planet",
p. 110.
[8] Zecharia
Sitchin, "The 12th Planet",
p. 211.
[9] Zecharia
Sitchin, "The 12th Planet",
p. 211.
Best wishes to you
and to all,
Polat Kaya
04/02/2005
Kamil KARTAL wrote:
>
> Newsgroups:
sci.lang
> From:
"JohnHalloran" <johnp...@...>
> Date: 27 Jan
2005 15:18:26 -0800
> Local: Thurs,
Jan 27 2005 3:18 pm
> Subject: Re:
Part-1: "Turkish-Sumerian kinship"
>
> The TUR sign
is normally read either as d u m u, 'son, child', or as t
> u r, which has
verbal and adjectival meanings 'to be small' as well as
> meaning
'child; young (of herd animals); second in rank', but also has
> a reading as m
a r 5, according to Borger's latest Mesopotamisches
>
Zeichenlexikon, which would be a variant way to write a m a r, 'calf,
> young of an
animal', where a m a r or m a r 2 is normally written
> with the AMAR
sign.
>
> It is false to
say that the reading t u r has been suppressed in
>
transliterating Sumerian texts, but it does mean 'small'. The name
> Marduk, from
amar-utu-ak, meaning 'bull-calf of the sun', could have
> been a name
for the god of the planet Mercury.
>
> The bottom
line is that the Sumerian vocabulary must be approached as
> an object for
study in itself, and not be forced through a lens of
> Turkish or
Tamil or some other distorting lens. Just because an author
> knows another
agglutinating language does not mean that they have a
> magic shortcut
to understanding Sumerian without having to acquaint
> themselves
with the Sumerological literature.
> Regards,
>
> John Halloran
> http://www.sumerian.org/
>
> >>>About the name TUR:
>
> The Turkic
name TUR or Turk does not appear in Sumerian writings. But
> this
appearance is rather false. The name TUR has been suppressed in
> reading
Sumerian texts. We have the evidence for this suppression. One
> very important
footnote regarding the name TUR has been preserved for
> us by C. J.
Gadd. He writes: [2] in footnote III. 1: "TUR is read
>
"mar" in the name of this god".
>
> Here he openly
says that the term "MAR" is actually the name "TUR" of
> a god, but
somehow, due to some "arbitrary convention", TUR is not
> read as TUR
but is read as MAR. I am grateful to C. J. Gadd for
> writing this
footnote. I must add here that the Turkish word TUR has
> been read as
MAR and/or AMAR in the reading of the Sumerian texts.
> This reading
of course obliterates totally the name TUR from
> translated
texts.