Re: [hrl_2] Re: Fw: [bcn2004] Hitit ve Hatti Gök-Tanri OGUZ Töresi

To: James M. Rogers and friends

Greetings. emarhalys wrote:

>
> Note the plural form is Augusti. Thus Augustus is the singular form,
> making the -us but a suffix.
>
> For Dr. Kaya to again include this -us suffix to root in his
> equation of
>
> "...The name "AUGUSTUS", when decrypted letter-by-letter as "UGUS AT
> US", > is an anagram of the Turkish expression "OGUZ ATA US"
> meaning "wise > father OGUZ"."
>
> Is a weakness.
>
> For we do not need the -us of Augustus. The root is August. It
> means "wise or venerable". So he could make the comparison Augustus
> = Ogus Ata, father Ogus, but should not make the comparsion of "Oguz
> ata us" -- it only weakens his case!
>

Polat Kaya: If yo do not mind my telling you, it seems that you are
either "missing the boat" or "mixing the boats" or both. Let me explain.

When I explained "AUGUSTUS", explained it in a Turkish expression as
its source, not in "Latin" as you think that I did. Thus you did not
understand me correctly. Additionally, the descriptive Turkish
expression "OGUS ATA US" rearranged by the Latin "anagrammatizers"
into "AUGUSTUS" defines the SKY-GOD himself. There can be nothing more
splendid, magnificent, dignified, venerable, good, exalting, etc.,
than calling a mortal "king" by a name that belongs to the immortal
Sky-God himself. That title taken from Turkish by the "pagan" Roman
Emperors is indeed very exalting.

Turkish word "US" means "wisdom, wise, knowledgable", and not the
"Latin" plurality "suffix" as you think that it was. They are two
different concepts. Thus you are confusing them with each other, that
is, a term in Latin and a term in Turkish. This is the "mixing the
boats" aspect.

It was important for the ancient rulers to be known as "wise" and
"equipped with wisdom" in leading the people they ruled. For that
reason, for example, many of the ancient Masarian (so-called
"Egyptian") Kings had the Turkish term "USER" in their titles meaning
"WISE MAN". Please check this in the titles of many ancient Egyptian
kings given by Sir E. A. Wallis Budge in his book called "An Egyptian
Hierogliphic Dictionary". You will find many titles with this Turkish
expression (US ER) in their titles. Another form of this kind of
appellation is the Turkish word "BILGEMISH", "BILGE" and "AGILGAMISH"
meaning "matured with knowledge and wisdom". "GILGAMESH" was such a
title of a Sumerian King.

In accordance to the ancient Turanian kinghood traditions, rulers took
the expressions in Turkish describing Sky-Father-God, Sun-God and
Moon-God in their titles as the rulers regarded themselves
representing the trinity Sky-God on earth. Similarly, the "pagan"
Roman emperors also took appellations that described the Sky-God OGUZ.
This is indicated in Latin as "COGNOMEN" [from "COG NOMEN"] which is
from Turkish "GÖK NAMIN" meaning "your sky name". The "sir name" of
people comes from this source. Turkish GOG/GÖK/GÖY/KÖK means "sky" and
"NAMIN" means "your name". The expression "OGUZ ATA US" was the name
of "GOK TANRI" the Sky-God, and was such an appellation (title) in
ancient Turkish. Evidently, the Latins anagrammatized this expression
as "AUGUSTUS" as a "cognomen".

So you see, I have not introduced any "weakness" as you claim that I
have. On the contrary I have strengthened the title with "wisdom".

The term "AUGUST" meaning "noble, eminent, venerable, princely,
superb, glorious, imposing, majestic, magnificent, etc.," are the
adjectives defining the the ancient Turanian creator Sky-Father-God,
the Sun-God and the Moon-God. This trinity was combined in one
word-name "OGUZ" (O GOZ) in ancient times. Thus your Latin term
"AUGUSTI" was in actuality an anagram of Turkish expression "ATI UGUS"
(ADI OGUZ) meaning "his name is OGUZ", thus referring to the ancient
Turanian Sky-God OGUZ. Thus, you see it is a fallacy for any one to
think that the name "AUGUSTUS" is coming from the name of the mortal
Roman emperor "AUGUSTUS". On the contrary, its source is the ancient
Turkish religion and language.

There is one more important meaning to the so-called Latin term
"AUGUSTI" in Turkish. This name is an anagram of Turkish expression
"U AGUS'TI" (O AGUZti) meaning "it is the word, language, mouth", that
is, "OGUZ AGUZ" or "TUR AGUZ" meaning "the Turkish Language". This
should remind to many of you the 1st statement in JOHN 1 saying:

"In the beginning the WORD was, and the Word was with God, and the
Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God."

As it can be seen the source of this statement is Turkish no matter
where it was mentioned. Surely, without "mouth" (aguz) no man can
live. Additionally, "mouth" (aguz) is the creator of all words,
names, languages, etc., Hence, "AGUZ" was and still is a "god" as a
creator.


Best wishes to all,

Polat Kaya

31/07/2004

**************


emarhalys wrote:
>
> Kamil, I do not have the time today to adequately study this
> excerpt, maybe by the weekend I can give a full study to it? But Dr.
> Kaya wrote:
>
> "Similarly all Greek king names were also all anagrammatized from
> Turkish expressions..."
>
> I have found in language studies, when someone says "all" that they
> have either (1) not bothered to look at "all examples" (2) have
> generalized specific cases with faulty logic ie All cars have
> wheels. Cars with wheels are red. Thus all cars are red! (3) have
> not given enough examples to prove that "all cases" are indeed
> correct?
>
> Here is an url that lists king names of Greece and the many tribes
> of Greece. Please forward it to Dr. Kaya so I may see "all the Greek
> king names"? Thanks!
>
> http://www.hostkingdom.net/gktrib.html
>
> Also, here is the wikipedia description of Augustus
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus
>
> Note the plural form is Augusti. Thus Augustus is the singular form,
> making the -us but a suffix.
>
> For Dr. Kaya to again include this -us suffix to root in his
> equation of
>
> "...The name "AUGUSTUS", when decrypted letter-by-letter as "UGUS AT
> US", > is an anagram of the Turkish expression "OGUZ ATA US"
> meaning "wise > father OGUZ"."
>
> Is a weakness.
>
> For we do not need the -us of Augustus. The root is August. It
> means "wise or venerable". So he could make the comparison Augustus
> = Ogus Ata, father Ogus, but should not make the comparsion of "Oguz
> ata us" -- it only weakens his case!
>

POLAT KAYA: Root is not "AUGUST". You are thinking in terms of Latin
as if it was an original language which it was not. The source of the
Latin language is Turkish. Also, Turkish term "US" emphsizes the title
as "WISE". Additionally, what you call "AUGUST" is actually from
Turkish "OGUZ ATA". The source of "AUGUST" and "AUGUSTUS" is Turkish
and they are the "usurped and repainted car cases". If you keep
thinking in terms of Latin then you are confusing "apples and
oranges". When you think in Turkish, the whole thing makes a lot of
sense.

"AUGUSTUS" is the anagrammatized Turkish expression claimed as


> Well that's all for today.
>
> Thanks for letting me join the group!
>
> James M. Rogers
> emarhalys@...
>
> --- In historical_linguistics_2@yahoogroups.com, "Kamil Kartal"
> <kkartal@m...> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Özgün Ileti -----
> > Kimden: "Polat Kaya" <tntr@C...>
> > Kime: <bcn_2004@yahoogroups.com>; <Polat_Kaya@yahoogroups.com>
> > Gönderme tarihi: 29 Mayis 2004 Cumartesi 19:24
> > Konu: Re: [bcn2004] Hitit ve Hatti Gök-Tanri OGUZ Töresi
> >
> >
> > Erhan Berber Bey,
> >
> > Merhaba. [bcn2004] "Hitit Yazim Geleneginde Hatti Sozcukler
> Listesi"
> > baslikli (Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:53:49 -0400) Hattilerle ilgili
> > iletinde ilginç bilgiler vardi. Ben simdilik bir paragraf üzerinde
> > durmak istedim. Dr. Oguz Soysal'in hatti dili ile ilgili calismasi
> > ile ilgili verilen yazida Ingilizce olarak söyle denmis ve ben de
> > arkadaslarin izni ile görüslerimi Ingilizce olarak verecegim:
> >
> > >
> > > Hatti people had also developed a cult of animal-shaped gods.
> they
> > > had used the symbol of bull in many places. at times bull
> appears on
> > > disks representing sky and the sun. scholars think that bull may
> > > have been the symbol of the greatest god of sky.
> >
> > Of course Oguz was the greatest god ever. and his animal symbol
> was OX
> > (OKUZ, BULL, BOGA) througout the ancient Tur/Turk world. That
> ancient
> > world had the universal Turkish OGUZ religion. I believe some
> > scholars know the truth about it, but they will not admit it. That
> > would be tantamount to writing the ancient history again. The
> > archeologists finding the bull (OGUZ/OKUZ) symbol every where is
> quite
> > natural becausethe OGUZ religion of ancient Turanians was the
> > universal sky-god religion. That is why the bull symbol of Hatti
> > people, representing, sun, moon and the sky-god, is nothing but the
> > symbol of Oguz-Han (Lord Oguz), that is, the Sun-God, Moon-God and
> > the Sky-Father-God of the ancient Turanians. I have been writing
> > about OGUZ in many of my writings in this forum. Bull was the
> symbol
> > of god for all Turkish peoples of the ancient world. That Turkish
> > world includes the Sumerians, Masarians, Phoenicians, Cananaites.
> > Cartagenians, Palestinians, Hurrians, Mitannians, Medes, Turukkus,
> > Urartus, Kassites, the Minoans of Crete, of course the native
> > Anatolians, Etruscans and Pelasgians. The "pagan" Romans also
> > warshiped OGUZ.
> >
> > All Roman emperors had the sky-name (gognomen, gög nami)
> of "augustus"
> > meaning "holy, divine, consecrated, and majestic." These are
> > adjectives that define "Oguz Ata", that is, the name of the ancient
> > Turanian sky-god.
> >
> > The name "AUGUSTUS", when decrypted letter-by-letter as "UGUS AT
> US",
> > is an anagram of the Turkish expression "OGUZ ATA US" meaning "wise
> > father OGUZ". The Roman emperors by taking such a name as their
> > "surname", they elevated themselves to the level of god, that is,
> they
> > declared themselves as divine. Similarly all Greek king names were
> > also all anagrammatized from Turkish expressions also making them
> > divine. Since the ancient world was the following ONE Sky-God OGUZ
> > religion, it was also natural for them all to speak one OGUZ
> language
> > (TURKISH) before that language was confused by the Semitics, Greeks
> > and Latins. That is why GENESIS 11 speaks of the whole world
> speaking
> > one language. That is why we are able to find many words belonging
> to
> > the so-called Indo-European and Semitic languages as anagrams of
> the
> > words and phrases of Turkish language. These facts have been
> > suppressed by the writers of ancient world history. The ancient
> > propagandists in establishing new religions, such as
> > Judeo-Christianity, and in trying to get rid of the ancient
> Turkish
> > religion and the Turkic names describing the Turanian Oguz religion
> > and its gods used belittling and demonizing language against them.
> > With such a tactic they forced the ancient Tur/Turk peoples to
> forget
> > the name Oguz, Gök-Ata-Tanri, Tanri, Tengir, Dingir, Utu, and
> others.
> > the Turkic god had many names to this day. The Hatti findings
> > described below is another verification of the ancient Turkish sky-
> god
> > Oguz religion.
> >
> > In Oguz-Kagan epic (on line 2 of the epic writing) [1], there is
> the
> > symbol of a "wild bull". This symbol represents the name Oguz
> rhyming
> > with the Turkish word "okuz" for "ox and bull".
> >
> > In the name Oguz reference is also made to Turkish words: "O-GOZ"
> > ("that eye" referring to "sun" and "moon" and the human "eyes"),
> > "AGUZ" (meaning "mouth" referring to "life", "human language" and
> > human being), "AG-UZ" ("ag-yüz" meaning "white face" referring
> to "sun
> > disk", "moon-disk" and "human face"), all embedded in one word
> through
> > the fantastic ability of Turkish language.
> >
> > Another name for the ancient Turanian SKY-GOD was "TUR" which
> > represented not only the ethnic name of Tur/Turk peoples but also
> the
> > Turkish expressions: "ATA-U-ER" meaning "he is father man"
> referring
> > to ancient turanian "sky-father-god", and "UT-U-ER" meaning "fire
> is
> > that man" referring to the "SUN-GOD UTU". Moon was part of the
> ancient
> > Turanian trinity sky-god concept and it was referred to by a
> number of
> > names such as TUR-AY meaning "God Moon or Moon God" and "TUR-ÖY"
> > meaning "Tur House" or "the temple".
> >
> > The name "TUROY" which was not only the name of the ancient city of
> > "Troy" the head city of Trojans (with C/J translation this name is
> > from Turkish expression "Tur Canlar", that is, Tur/Turk people),
> but
> > also it meant the ancient Turkish word TURUY [2] (mesken,
> durulacak
> > yer, Tur evi, Tanri evi, tapinak) meaning "temple" referring to the
> > "moon".
> >
> > In the Turkish name "TUR" is also embedded the expression "UT-U-ER"
> > ("Okuz o Er", "O boga", "ut-u" (okuz o) in Turkish) meaning "It is
> > male cattle, that is, "it is bull" or "it is ox"". This comes from
> > ancient Turkish word "UT" meaning "okuz" [3]. This ancient Turkish
> > word "UT" is also the "OD, OT, ATES" meaning fire. The so-called
> > Greek word "tauros" meaning "bull" is an anagram of Turkish "UT AR
> OS"
> > meaning "bull man oguz" or "UTU ER OGUZ)" meaning "Sun-God is
> OGUZ".
> > The Turkish words AS, OS (OZ), US, GUZ all stand for the name OGUZ.
> > It should be noted that the names "OS MAN", "OSMAN", "OTHMAN" AND
> > "OGUZMAN" indicate the ethnic Oguz peoples since ancient times. It
> > should also be noted that "bull" is a "father" figure.
> >
> > The ancient Tur Masarians (Misir, also so-called "Egypt" peoples)
> > Moon-Goddess by the name "ISIS" voiced as "AYSIZ" which is from the
> > Turkish word "AY" as the name of "moon". Her hieroglyphic symbol
> was
> > a "throne" (chaire, that is an "OTUR ÖY"or "TURUY" or "DUR ÖY"
> meaning
> > "place to sit, stand or stop". Goddess ISIS was regarded as sister
> and
> > wife of OSIRIS. The names ISIS and OSIRIS are the Hellenized
> versions
> > of Turkish AY (moon) and "AS ER" (Peerless Man), "OS ER" (Oguz man)
> > and "US ER" (Wise Man) all referring to the Sky-Father-God OGUZ of
> > ancient Turanians. The Hellenized versions made these names
> > unrecognizable as Turkish. Masarian goddess so-called HATHOR had
> the
> > crown of a pair of "Bull horns embracing the Sun disk". In
> essence,
> > the "pair of horns" represented the "crescent moon. "The crescent
> > moon and the sun" emblems still adorn the flags of many of the
> Turkish
> > states throughout the ancient world.
> >
> >
> > REFERENCES:
> >
> > [1] Resit Rahmeti Arat, "MAKALELER" prepared by Osman Fikri
> Sertkaya,
> > Ankara, 1987, p. 613 ,
> >
> > [2] Hüseyin Namik Orkun, "Eski Türk Yazitlari, Türk Dil Kurumu
> > Yayinlari: 529, Ankara, 1987, p. 870.
> >
> > [3] Hüseyin Namik Orkun, ayni eser, p. 877
> >
> > With best wishes to all,
> >
> > Polat Kaya
> >
> > 28/05/2004
> >
> > =================
> >
> > Erhan Berber wrote:
> > >
> > > Asagidaki haber Dr. Oguz Soysal tarafindan bir Hatti dili kitabi
> > > olusturuldugunu bildiriyor. Ankara Universitesi Dil ve Tarih
> > > Cografya Fakultesi mezunu sayin Soysal su anda Sikago
> > > Universitesinde ogretim gorevlisi. "Hitit Yazim Geleneginde Hatti
> > > Sozcukler Listesi" seklinde Turkcelestirilebilecek kitabini
> Almanca
> > > olarak kaleme almis. Calismasini henuz gormus ya da neden
> kitabini
> > > Almanca bastirmis oldugunu kendi kendime aciklayabilmis degilim.
> > > Ozellikle basvuru kaynagi, ya da konusunda temel olma sansi olan
> > > materyellerin -yaraticilari Turkceyi ana dil olarak
> benimsiyorlarsa-
> > > Turkce yayinlamamalarini Turkce'nin bir bilim dili olarak
> yerlesmesi
> > > amacinda kacirilmis firsatlar olarak goruyorum. Sevgiyle,
> > >
> > > Erhan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Anatolia News Agency reports that Dr. Oguz Soysal, a Turkish
> > > scholar has succeeded in preparing a dictionary of the Hatti
> > > language. The Hatti language is the oldest recorded language of
> > > Anatolia, modern-day Asian part of Turkey.
> > >
> > > Dr. Soysal's work is considered very important since it is the
> first
> > > experiment of gathering phonology, grammar and dictionary of a
> dead
> > > language all at once.
> > >
> > > According to Dr. Soysal the Hattis constituted the oldest culture
> > > and nation documented with written texts in Anatolia.
> > >
> > > "The Hattis had been forced to live as a minority under the rule
> of
> > > the Hittites in the course of time. Unfortunately, not a single
> > > written text of the Hattis had directly reached our time.
> > >
> > > "However, since the Hittites had used the Hatti language in their
> > > temples as a sacred language, some paragraphs written in Hatti
> > > language were found in clay tablets of hieroglyph in Bogazkoy and
> > > Ortakoy Hittite epigraphic finds. There are nearly 500
> paragraphs.
> > > They are the only source of the Hatti language.
> > >
> > > "I have spent a quite long time and great efforts to prepare the
> > > dictionary of the Hatti language. The book, which has come into
> > > being after seven years of intense work, includes the whole
> > > bibliography about the Hatti language and all information about
> this
> > > dead language in Hittite tablets."
> > >
> > > Dr. Soysal says that the Hatti language was an isolate, that is,
> it
> > > did not belong to any known language group. He says that its
> > > structure resembles theat of the languages of the Caucasus.
> > >
> > > Dr. Soysal published his 1050-page book "List of Words of Hatti
> > > Language in Hittite Tradition of Writing" in German in the
> > > Netherlands.
> > >
> > > There are limited information about the Hattis who had formed a
> > > great civilization in Anatolia between 2500 and 1700 BC
> > >
> > > The Hattis were considered the aborigines of Anatolia, however,
> some
> > > scientists think that the Hattis were members of a Caucasian
> group
> > > that have migrated to Anatolia.
> > >
> > > The Hittites, who came to Anatolia around 1800 B.C. and conquered
> > > it, had assimilated the Hattis. The Hittite culture absorbed many
> > > elements of the Hattian culture.
> > >
> > > Scholarly works revealed that the Hattis inspired the Hittites in
> > > civilization, religion and mythology. Although they had defined
> > > themselves with a different name, the Hittites called their
> country
> > > as "the land of Hatti". They said in their religious tablets that
> > > their religious men had been speaking the Hatti language. Also,
> most
> > > of the personal names in the Hittite language came from the
> Hatti.
> > >
> > > The most important finds of the Hattian culture were unearthed in
> > > Alacahoyuk, in Central Turkey.
> > >
> > > During the archaeological excavations in Alacahoyuk sun disks,
> small
> > > sculptures, golden cups and many other works were unearthed.
> These
> > > works are being currently displayed at the Turkish capital
> Ankara's
> > > Museum of Anatolian Civilizations. The excavations at the site
> were
> > > started in 1935 under the auspices of Mr. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk,
> the
> > > founder of the modern Republic of Turkey.
> > >
> > > The Hattis' buried their dead in the hocker position -- sitting
> > > upright with the knees tucked up against the chest and the feet
> > > parallel with the floor as if seated on their posterior.
> Artifacts
> > > recovered from ancient settlements and burial sites also reveal
> the
> > > existence of cults of soil and resurrection, namely the cult of
> > > mother goddess.
> > >
> > > For example, in excavations in Horoztepe in North Central Turkish
> > > province of Tokat, archeologists found images of mother goddess
> and
> > > ritual bells. However, most of these finds were smuggled out of
> > > Turkey.
> > >
> > > One can see decorative and ornamental figures of Hattis in many
> > > places in Anatolia. This shows how the Hattis had spread and
> gained
> > > importance in the region.
> > >
> > > Hatti people had also developed a cult of animal-shaped gods.
> They
> > > had used the symbol of bull in many places. At times bull
> appears on
> > > disks representing sky and the sun. Scholars think that bull may
> > > have been the symbol of the greatest god of sky.
> > >
> > > Dr. Oguz Soysal, who graduated from the Ankara University
> Faculty of
> > > Language, History and Geography in 1982 with a degree of Hittite
> > > Language, has lectured in the University of New York as a guest
> > > professor in 1994 after earning his doctorate in Germany.
> > >
> > > He has been working at the University of Chicago since 1995. He
> has
> > > been continuing his work on the Hittite Dictionary Project.
> > >
> > > See more about Dr. Soysal at:
> > >
> > > http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/AR/98-99/98-99_Ind_Soysal.html