Re: [hrl_2] Re: Turkish-Sumerian kinship" -Vedic Sanskrit to Turanin links- Deivation of TUR

Dear BVK Sastry and Dear Friends,

Greetings. Please find my response to BVK Sastry's comments regarding
my previous posting. My response is in dialogue form.

You said:

> For the time being keep the hypothesis that Vedic Sanskrit is a
> derived, fabricated language from sumero tamil as a favorite thought
> presented in this group. Please look at the presentation from the
> view point- Vedic Sanskrit is the real proto language from which the
> later languages could have evolved. And see how Turanin concepts
> come from Vedic Sanskrit.

POLAT KAYA: Please note that when I state that the Indo-European and
Semitic languages were manufactured from Turkish, I do not use
conditional or open ended terms or phrases such as "could be this,
could be that" or "may be this or that", etc. I am very direct and
final. In your statement when you say that "assume that Vedic Sanskrit
is the real proto language from which the later languages could have
evolved", you have an open ended statement. Of course it is safer for
you to speak like that becauese you are guessing it. But when I say
that Turkish is the father/mother language, I am not guessing because
I have done my homework properly. Of course what I say is contrary to
all the things people have been taught in schools and are conditioned
to know.

K. Loganathan put forward the Sumer and Tamil kinship concept while
disregarding the Turkish - Sumerian kinsip concept. If you read my
earlier writings you will find that I have already said that Dravidian
(Tamil, and others) is a Turanian language and has kinship with
Turkish. This is so because Turanian languages are sourced from
Turkish. Similarly, Sumerian is also a Turan language. The term
URAL-ALTAIC, that supposedly defines and categorizes present day
Central Asian languages, is deliberately invented so that they can
avoid using the term TURAN and/or TURKISH. After all, a linguistic
group, whose languages have been manufactured from Turkish, would try
all kinds of sophistry to avoid the use of Turkish, Tur, and/or Turan
in classifying languages.

Additionally, even when you say that: "Please look at the presentation
from the
view point- Vedic Sanskrit is the real proto language from which the
later languages could have evolved. And see how Turanin concepts come
from Vedic Sanskrit" is simply a loaded assumption that is prealigned
with the establishment's view that many languages are derived from
Sanskrit, and hence Turkish may also be derived from it. But this is
not so and I will demonstrate as I go through your comments that it is
not so. In fact it is the other way around. If you know Turkish you
will follow what I am saying much more readily.

First let me explain the following: Both in Turkish and Sumerian, the
syllabary of the language consists of basic syllables made up as
"vowel-consonant", "consonant-vowel" and "consonant-vowel-consonant"
morphemes. For example, Turkish TUR, TIR, TÜR are in the latest group;
but TR or TRU (i.e., consonant-consonant or
consonant-consonant-vowel), as found in Indo-European languages, are
not in any one of these syllable groups. Yet when the speakers of
Indo-European languages vocalize the TR or TRU, they are really
vocalizing an implicit vowel between the consonants. In other words,
Indo-European speakers are vocalizing these abnormal phonemes (e.g.,
TR or TRU) in the form of Turkish TAR, TER, TIR, TiR, TOR, TÖR, TUR or
TÜR without admitting consciously that they are. If they are going to
vocalize such phonemes in that manner, why don't they write it
phonetically - as in Turkish? Or are we all being conned? Even the
TRU, as in your example "SAVITRU", is a broken up and distorted form
of Turkish TUR. If they insist that TR or TRU is a true syllable, then
there is a con game going on. All Indo-European languages use TR
frequently rather than TUR/TIR/TÜR - which are all Turkish.

The Turkish word TUR has the following meanings:

a) TUR is one name for the ancient Turanian Sky-God which has many
names. In this regard TUR has the subtle but extremely important
philosophy that is not readily evident. TUR refers to the universal
creator Sky-Father-God, Sun-God and Moon-God of ancient Tur/Turk
peoples. Thus when we say, for example, "OT-TUR", on the surface, we
are saying a) "it is Grass", or b) "it is fire". the fire are "GOD".
But in a subtle sense embedded in this omnipotent philosophy of life
is the understanding that God "TUR" is in everything and is
everywhere. Thus, when we say "OT-TUR" in Turkish, we would also mean
"God is grass", or "God is fire". This is the most fantastic aspect of
the Turkish language and the life philosophy that it represents and
expresses. In this example, Turkish "OT" means "grass" and "OT" (OD)
also means "fire"., "TUR" means "it is", by itself, expressed as
"OTUR" or "O TUR".

b) TUR is also one of the ethnic names of TUR/TURK peoples. Some other
ancient ethnic names are UZ, OZ, GUZ, or OGUZ. That is why OGUZ men
are called TURS and/or TURKS and their language is called "Turkish".

c) TUR is a very prominent suffix in Turkish which is used at the end
of all Turkish expressions defining a concept. For example. when we
say "GELMISTUR" meaning "He has come", the suffix "TUR" finishes the
phrase. When we say "OKULTUR" (OKULDUR) the phrase has the elements of
"OKUL" meaning "school" and "TUR" meaning "it is". Thus the Turkish
composite word "OKULTUR" means "it is school". This simple phrase
defines in a very definite sense the concept that we are talking
about. It clearly answers, for example, the question of "What is this?".

I do not wish to sound like a religious "priest", but in Turkish
religious culture and understanding of life, the concept of GOD
presents itself in everything whether the thing is a "flower, a seed,
a fly, a dung beetle, an ox or a man or an atom or a galaxy. One finds
the concept of "GOD" in all of its creations. It is in the ATOM, in
the Galaxy, in the ATAM (my father, my ancestor) and ADAM (man, my
father, my ancestor). In the ancient Turanian Sky-God concept, God
and Man are parallel concepts. That is why they say "God created man
in his own image".

After having noted these, now using your own examples I will
demonstrate that even your examples are made up from Turkish, not the
other way around as you suppose.


You wrote:
>
> Bhraatru (Brother) --> bhraa- tur ( belongs to the brother)


POLAT KAYA: Your "BHRAATRU" (< "BHR-AA-TRU") meaning "brother" is
actually a distorted form of the Turkish expression "BIR AA TUR" (Bir
Aga Tur) meaning "he is a lord". Turks call their elder brother as
"AGA-BEY" or "AGAM" meaning "my lord", "my elder". Additionally,
"BHRAATRU", when rearranged letter-by-letter as "BHR-ATA-RU", is the
restructured and disguised Turkish expression "BIR-ATA ERU" (Bir-ata
eri) meaning "man from same father". "Brothers" always have the same
"father" and they are modelled after "BIR-ATA" ("one father")
so-called "PROTO". Thus your example of "BHRAATRU" has actually been
made up from a Turkish expression. It is not the other way around as
you implied.


You wrote:
>
> Pitru (Father) --> Pi-tur (belongs to father)


POLAT KAYA: The term PITRU is another form of Indo-European words such
as PADRE, PATER, PEDER, PUTRA, FATHER, etc. meaning "father". All of
these are actually different forms of the Turkish phrase "APATUR"
meaning "he is father". This Turkish expression defines the meaning of
these words in Turkish as being the words for the concept of "father".
In the Turkish expression "APATUR", "APA" means "father" and "TUR"
means "he/she/it is".

But it is interesting to note that in these so-called Indo-European
words, not only Turkish word "APA" has been distorted into syllables
such as "PI, PA, PE, PU and even FA, but also the basic Turkish root
word "TUR" has been distorted and disguised into -TRU, -DRE, -TER,
-DER, -TRA and -THER so that it is not recognized as "Turkish"
anymore. Is this coincidence? Of course not. We have this exact
correspondence because so-called PITRU" is made up from Turkish
"APATUR" but it has been disguised to make it appear as if it belonged
to a language that was totally different than the Turkish language.
Yet the difference in appearance has been artificially created. The
proponents of this picture portray "Sanskrit" as if it is the original
and authentic language - which it was not.

Additionally, if PITRU is actually from "PITUR", why don't they write
it the way it should be written, that is, "PITUR" rather than PITRU"?
They do not write it that way because it would make Sanskrit, or
others so-called "languages derived from it", look very Turkish-like.
Obviously they do not want that picture to come out, because they were
originally usurped from Turkish. They would not turn back and admit
that they manufactured it from Turkish now -would they? Thus there
has been a deep rooted language alteration activity perpetrated since
ancient times.

Incidently, all versions of PITRU in so-called Indo-European languages
are made up from Turkish APATUR including the English term "FATHER".
They have all been anagrammatized from Turkish.

You wrote:

>
> Maatru (mother) --> maa-tur ( belongs to mother)

POLAT KAYA; The example of MAATRU meaning "mother" is also an
anagrammatized word from Turkish. "MAATRU" when rearranged
letter-by-letter as "AMATUR" is the Turkish expression "AMATUR" or
"ANATUR" both meaning "she is mother". Turkish "AMATUR" is also
related to Turkish "MEMETUR" (MEMEDIR) meaning "she is breast" which
obviously is the child and mother relationship. Thus your example of
MAATRU meaning "mother" is a word made up from Turkish but disguised
to make it look like it comes from a different language.

Similarly, all versions of MAATRU appearing in Indo-European languages
are made up from Turkish expressions. In other words, Turkish has not
been derived from Sanskrit or any other language as claimed. It is
the other way around. And this is non-debateable.

You said:

> Suggested derivation in relation to the word of 'TUR' from SAVITRU:
>
> Take the vedic name 'Savitru' meaning one of the forms of the Supreme
> Deity, Sun God, The grammatically derived forms of this leads to the
> expressions - 'sa-vi-tur' in the famous Gayatri mantra found in the
> Vedas. Generally any Ru ending noun when processed according to the
> sanskrit grammar gets the final form 'tur' in some of the case forms. "


POLAT KAYA: First of all the term TUR has not been derived from
SAVITRU, as you imply, but rather it is SAVITRU that has been derived
from TUR with the attached embellishment of SAVI. The term SAVITRU
meaning the Supreme Deity, Sun-God is also very revealing. The term
SAVITRU is a composite word which includes the suffix TRU which is the
distorted Turkish word TUR., and the word SAVITRU in actuality gets
the final form of SAVITUR as you clearly point out. Thus, as I
explained above, The Turkish word TUR is the name not only for the
Supreme Creator Sky-Deity, but also is the Sun-God and also the
Moon-God.

The Turkish language basically is a monosyllabic language in which
much larger expressions are made up by joining together many smaller
root words, used as suffixes and infixes. Composite objects are made
up with smaller basic building blocks. Similarly, it is resonable to
think that mono-syllabic languages would be developed much earlier
than the composite languages such as the Sanskrit. Hence Turkish is a
much earlier developed language than Sanskrit or any other languge
regarded as being derived from Sanskrit.

Therefore the composite vedic sanskrit word "SAVITRU" could not be
taken as the base, as you suggested. I suggest that SAVITRU is a word
made up from the smaller words "SAVI + TUR". In its structure it
carries the Turkish word TUR and SAVI most likely is the Turkish word
"SAVI" (SEVI) from Turkish verb "sevmek" meaning "to love". Thus
"SEVITUR" (SAVITUR) would mean "He who is loved", as well as "He who
loves". Religiously the Supreme Deity, (i.e., God) has always been
loved by people. "Love" is the essence of being "close" to God or is
the basis of believing in God. Thus Vedic SAVITRU is very much an
anagrammatized Turkish expression contrary to advocated false
assumptions. In this word Turkish TUR is one of the building blocks
included in it in a distorted form, and "SAVI" in "SAVITRU" is just an
embellishment to cover up the Turkish word TUR, the name of the
ancient Turanian Supreme deity.

I would also like to add, after noting your explanation of "RU", it is
not the RU suffix that would be related to Turkish TUR but rather the
TRU suffix that is related to TUR. But TRU is a distorted form of
Turkish TUR. Additionally, similar Vedas terms like GAYATRI and MANTRA
found in the Vedas texts carry the Turkish stamp TUR, TIR, TAR, TER,
etc. in the distorted forms of TRU, TRI, TRA, TRE, etc.. Reducing
them into RU, RI or RA is just a coverup of the fact that they were
anagrammatized from Turkish TUR.

The other God name that I wanted to bring to the attention of readers
is the name BRAHMA PUTRA. The name BRAHMA is described as: "Hindu
Religion. 1. Also BRAHMAN, [Sanskrit BRAHMAN, prayer, impersonal
spirit.] The supreme soul or essence of the universe, immaterial,
uncreated, illimitable, timeless, often described as being
intelligence, and bliss". [1]

The name "BRAHMA PUTRA", when rearranged letter-by-letter as
"BR-AHAM-AP-TUR" and read phonetically as in Turkish, is the Turkish
expression "BIR AGAM APA TUR" meaning "My Lord is Father TUR". This
describes the ancient Turanian creator Sky-God with a Turkish
expression that has been made up with basic Turkish root words. God
is an APA (ATA), that is, "father" figure because God is the creator.
It is clearly seen that "BRAHMA PUTRA" is a personification of the
creator Sky-God - described in Turkish but disguised by alteration.

There is another name similar to the name of "BRAHMA", that is, the
name of "ABRAHAM" a "Semitic" name. This name is also made up from
Turkish expression "BIR AHAM" (BIR AGAM) meaning "My One Lord" which
describes the ancient Turanian One Sky-God concept. Thus presenting
"ABRAHAM" as a real person travelling here and there and leading a
people out of the Sumerian city of UR is fiction. This name also has
been used as the founding block of a cult operated as religion.
"Cults" are religious establishments in which only few operating
persons know the real truth about the true nature of the cult, and the
rest of the followers are consciously kept in the dark. As it is seen,
the name "ABRAHAM" is also a personification of the ancient Turanian
Sky-God and its origin is also Turkish. Turkish "BIR-AGA" (One Lord),
"BIR TENGRI" (One God), "BIR-O" (One Him) all refer to the very
ancient "ONE GOD" Sky-God concept. In this concept, creator
Sky-Father-God is ONE, the Sun-God is ONE and the Moon-God is ONE.
Additionally the Sun and the Moon are regarded as the eyes of the
"creator One Father God". This ancient "trinity" concept has also been
personified as "three heads in one body" by ancient Turanians.

I would also like to bring to the attention of readers another Indian
name for God which is the Indian Elephant-God called GANESHA - the
most popular zoomorphic Hindu Deity.

The URL below gives the following description:

http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa083000a.htm

"The Lord of Success The son of Shiva and Parvati, Ganesha has an
elephantine countenance with a curved trunk and big ears, and a huge
pot-bellied body of a human being. He is the Lord of success and
destroyer of evils and obstacles. He is also worshipped the god of
education, knowledge, wisdom and wealth. In fact, Ganesha is one of
the five prime Hindu deities (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva and Durga being
the other four) whose idolatry is glorified as the panchayatana puja.
Ganesh Chaturthi The devotees of Ganesha are known as 'Ganapatyas',
and the festival to celebrate and glorify him is called Ganesh Chaturthi."

Of course this Indian Supreme Deity name "GANESHA" is another form of
the Turkish name "GUNESH" meaning "Sun". Thus the Elephant-God GANESHA
is also a personification of the Sun, that is, the ancient Turanian
Sun-God. The name GANESHA also represents the following concepts as
the Turkish GUNESH does:

a) "GÜNESH" meaning "sun";

b) "GÜNISHI" meaning "sunlight" which illuminates the earth. The
opposite of sunlight is "black" (KARA in Turkish) or darkness - which
is the colour of evil. Hence sunlight, being the opposite of black or
darkness, represents goodness. Sunlight removes darkness and brings
goodness to people and hence fights evil - metaphorically.

c) "GÜNISI" meaning "sunwarmth", that is, the heat of the sun which
warms up the earth;

d) "GANISH" (KANISH) meaning "understanding, wisdom". Without the sun
and its light, understanding of things would not be possible. Black is
not conducive to goodness of learning, understanding or wisdom.

e) "GONUSH" (KONUSH) meaning "word, speech, language" without which no
human civilization as we know it would be possible. After all, JOHN 1
says: "In the beginning the WORD was, and the WORD was with GOD, and
the Word was a god. This one was in [the] beginning with God".

This Biblical statement is a description of the ancient Turanian God
OGUZ and his language, that is, "AGUZ" (SÖZ) meaning "mouth, word,
speech and language" without referring to it. Referring to the name
OGUZ would be an admission that they got their religious understanding
and knowledge from Oguz. They preferred to stay mum on it. Yet the
implication of this Biblical statement is that first there was the God
OGUZ and with him there was the first language (AGUZ), that is,
"OGUZCA" in Turkish, i.e., "TURCA/TÜRKÇE" the TURKISH language. OGUZ
is also the name of the ancestors of the TUR/TURK peoples. Thus it is
also the ethnic name of TUR/TURKS. This Biblical statement puts all
other languages after the TUR/TURK (OGUZ) language implying that other
languages have been madeup from Turkish contrary all the "scholarly" verbosity.

This is also verified by the Latin word "DEUS" means "God". With this
name for "God" is also the Turkish word "DEUSh" (DEYISh) meaning
"word, speech, language". Similarly, the Greek word "THEOS" means
"God". But this name also has embedded in it the Turkish word "TEUSH"
(deush, deyish) meaning "word, speech, language". DEO also means
"God". Bu "DEO" is also the Turkish "DE O" meaning "it is Word", "it
is what we say", i.e., "speech". The root these Indo-European "God
names comes from the Turkish word DE/TE meaning "speak" comes from
Turkish verb "demek" meaning "to speak". Again we find the Turkish
word "DE/TE" meaning "word" associated with all of these Indo-European
names for God. This again shows that Turkish was the first language
associated with the name of God in the beginning. All other languages
were derived thereafter.

The Indian God Ganesha is said to have other important names as well.
One of them is GANAPATI meaning "lord of the people".

The name GANAPATI is very much the Turkish expression "GUN APATI" (gün
babadi, gün atadi) meaning "Sun is father" or "He is Sun-Father". This
again identifies GANESHA with the Turkish GUNESH, that is, the "SUN".
This correspondence could not be due to coincidence. Evidently joining
the words of the Turkish expressions together to make words for
Sanskrit has been a very widely used technic also. It becomes clear
that this form of manufacturing words for Sanskrit from Turkish
language has been used for a long time as it has also been done so by
the Semites and Europeans.

It is said that the Indian GANESHA had the mother named "PARVATI". The
term PARVATI when viewed as "P-ARVAT-I", has embedded in it the
Turkish word "ARVAT" meaning "woman, wife, mother". Additionally,
Turkish expression "aPa-ARVATI" means "father's wife" which is again
"mother". Thus again we find the presence of Turkish words in this
important Indian word.

Now you will note that the core word "ARVAT" which is Turkish has been
"elegantly wrapped", as you put it, with "P" and "I" in the Indian
word "PARVATI" which hides the main word ARVAT and makes it not
recognizable as Turkish. In other words, the Turkish word ARVAT has
been disguised in the word PARVATI because of the "wrapping" that
occurs in Sanskrit as you pointed out.

It is curious that one of the Indian representations of GANESHA is
shown as an elephantine person in the center surrounded with two women
and the picture is put between the horns of a "bull". Although GANESHA
is pictured as "elephantine" but portraying him between the horns of a
"bull" is very meaningful. Is this a coincidence? Of course not. It
is represented so because its source is the ancient Turanian Sky-God
OGUZ, and OGUZ was represented with the "bull" icon, because it rhymed
with the Turkish name OKUZ meaning "ox, bull", and similarly the name
TUR is in "UT-U-ER" again meaning "bull, cattle". UTU was the name of
Sun-God in Sumerian.

I may also add here that this ancient Turanian concept will also
explain why "cattle" was sacred in India, particularly the "white"
and/or "white-spotted" cattle. It is because the ancient Indian
religion was the ancient Turanian OGUZ religion.

The term "ZOOMORPHISM" is defined as: "1. The representation of God,
or of gods, in the form, or with the attributes, of the lower animals.
2. Use of animal forms in art or symbolism. - ZOOMORPHIC." [2]

But even the name ZOOMORPHISM, when rearranged letter-by-letter as
"MOR-OOZ-P-ISMH" where "H" is actually an "I", is the Turkish
expression "ISMI MOR OGUZ aPa" meaning "his name is Purple OGUZ
Father" referring to the Turkish Sky God OGUZ, His logo "OKUZ" (ox,
bull) and "AGUZ" the "mouth" which speaks. It should be noted here
that the Turkish word OGUZ, which not only identifies the ancient Sky
God OGUZ but also identifies the Turkish people themselves, also
contains the Turkish word OKUZ which was the ancient bull icon of Sky
God OGUZ and additionally contains the Turkish word AGUZ meaning
MOUTH, WORD, LANGUAGE or SPEECH - which was God and was with God.
Another important cultural concept that is embedded in OGUZ is the
Turkish term AG-UZ (AK-YUZ) meaning "white-face". Sun and Full Moon
are "white faces. Additionally the Turkic peoples are white-faced
peoples. This is probably one reason that ancient Turanian TUR/TURK
peoples generally shaved their faces - in general while some others
kept a bearded face.

These are not coincidences. They show that there has been a very
conscious and conning changeover from a Turanian Turkish speaking
world into a totally confused and muddled up world.

Thus again we see that all Sky-God concepts in various languages are
woven around the Turkish names of the ancient Turanian Sky-God TUR
and OGUZ concepts. This is so because Turanian civilization was the
first in the world.

You said:

>
> The word 'pitruka' can be derived from the word 'pitur' meaning
> ancestor worshippers;

POLAT KAYA: Yes indeed Turkish "APATUR" also means "Grand father" and
thus "ancestor". TURKs are known for "ancestor worshipping" throughout
their history. Erecting a tall monolith as a tombstone for their
ancestors is one ancient way of honoring their forefathers forever;
and this is a Tur/Turk tradion originating from TURAN. The stone
monuments standing up at the tombs of ancient peoples spread
throughout Asia and Europe are the remnants of Turanian Tur/Turk
peoples. The Turkish word "TURAN" (DURAN) also has the meaning of
"that which stands up" which is a very clear cut definition of the
ancient Turanian tomb-stones which honour their forefathers. The
remnants of this ancient Tur/Turk traditon is all over the world still
standing up as giant monoliths.

You may be interested to know that the English term "ANCESTOR" is also
an anagram of the Turkish expression "ONCE TURUS" (önce Turuz) meaning
"we are previous Turs" which of course defines the ancestors of
Tur/Turk peoples. Thus you see my friend what you see on the surface
is not necessarily the representation of "truth" as this English word
clearly demonstrates. That is why I say that all Indo-European and
Semitic languages have been manufactured from Turkish as the source
language for them all. We have all been conned very cleverly by some
cabalistic linguist priests.

You also wrote:

> The language identity of these groups may have been carried the stamp
> of the 'tur' and 'ka' in their original form; and in the anglicized
> forms, the word 'turkihsh' for this language might have come in to
> practical usage.
>

POLAT KAYA: Your statement is not clearly written. If I understand
you correctly, you seem to be implying that TUR, KA and TURKISH were
derived from Sanskrit. Yet I have been showing you that the opposite
is true.

You said:

> The religious beliefs and the way the relation between the supreme
> deity and the humans are conceived in these groups in the above
> relations is a point for further study.
>
> To support this view I draw attention to Polkat Kayas post quote (2)
> placed below.
> To get at the form of Turanian language, I place one
> more alternative derivation route, which again is linked to the
> famous Gayatri mantra in the Vedas. Gayari mantra has the following
> two words in conjunction 'savitur- varenyam'. The word 'Varenyam' in
> gayatri mantra in vedic sanskrit means 'noblest, desirable, great',
> best'. The total meaning of the word 'savitur- varenyam' is
> the 'noblest, desirable, great', best related to sun god called
> savitru'.


POLAT KAYA: These meanings you list are attributions of the SUN-GOD.
Additionally, the term "VARENYAM", when rearranged letter-by-letter as
"NAR-V-AYEM", is a restructured and distorted form of the Turkish
expression "NAR VE AYEM" meaning "I am Fire and Moon"; or
"AY-V-NAREM", is a restructured and distorted form of the Turkish
expression "AY VE NAREM" meaning "I am Moon and Fire". In both case,
these Turkish expressions refer to the ancient Turanian Sun-God and
Moon-God" which are noblest, desirable and great.

In this light, we have a meaning in Turkish for the Sanskrit
expression "SAVITRU-VARENYAM" or "SAVITUR-VARENYAM". This composite
expression, when rearranged as "SAVI-TUR-NAR-V-AYEM", is the Turkish
expression "SEVI TUR NAR VE AYIM" meaning "I am your beloved TUR the
Fire and Moon" which refers to the Sun-God and Moon-God. Similarly, if
we rearranged the expression as "SAVI-TUR-AY-V-NAREM", it is the
Turkish expression "SEVI TUR AY-VE-NARIM" meaning "I am your beloved
TUR the Moon and Sun" which is exactly the meaning of the name TUR
given to the ancient Turanian Sky-God.


You said:

In the same post Polkat Kaya says 'Tur' means Gods name
> with solar emphasis. From the word 'savitur-varenyam' through the
> dropping of the first and last units of letters leads to '(sa)(vi)
> (tur)- (va)(re)(nyam)' the resultant form is ' (tur)-(re)(nyam)'.
> >From this through the deformed usage the resultant language
> identity of 'tu-ren' might have resulted.

POLAT KAYA: I have already shown above how "SEVITRU-VARENYAM" was
organized from Turkish expression which invalidates your explanation.

Your last paragraph is also very revealing.

You said:

> This suggested dropping of
> the initial letters and last letters is a technical sanskrit process
> called 'anu-bandha-karana'. It means consciously wrapping the
> required word on the left and right with additional phoneme units
> for protection of the inner core word. This is NOT arbitrary
> linguistic process. This derivation has the elegance of linking the
> meaning of the vedic word and tradition in the derived language
> without any difficulty.


POLAT KAYA: This is most enlightening with respect to Sanskrit and
how it makes up words for itself by "consciously dropping of the
initial letters and last letters and also wrapping the required word
on the left and right with additional phoneme units". This action is a
disguising technique, by another word, "anagrammatizing". This
Sanskrit process of "consciously wrapping the required word on the
left and right with additional phoneme units for protection of the
inner core word" is not so innocent as you portray it. Its purpose is
not to "protect the core word" or to generate "elegance" but rather to
restructure and disguise the Turkish words and phrases. Sanskrit
PARVATI is a good example where Turkish ARVAT has been wrapped with a
P on its left and an I on its right. The resulting Sanskrit word
PARVATI does not look Turkish any more. Evidently Turkish words and/or
expressions have been altered by this method in order to come up with
Sanskrit looking words for all languages that are claimed to be
derived from Sanskrit. Similarly the process of "dropping of the
initial and final letters" is also obliterates the source text.

Further on in your paragraph, you have given us the Sanskrit term
called 'anu-bandha-karana' describing this linguistic action in
Sanskrit. But this process called 'anu-bandha-karana' is nothing but a
form of the Greek/English term "anagrammatize". It is amazing to see
how much correspondence the term "ANU-BANDHA-KARANA" has with the
English word "ANA-GRAMMA-TIZE".

The Greek/English term "ANAGRAMMATIZE", when deciphered
letter-by-letter as "ANA-GARMA-TIZME" is the restructured and
disguised form of the Turkish expression "ONU GIRMA TIZME" (Onu kirma
dizme) meaning "breaking and restructuring it".

Similarly, the Sanskrit expression "ANU-BANDHA-KARANA", when
rearranged as "ANU-KARAN-BANDHA", where H is an "I", is similar to the
Turkish expression "ONU-KIRIN-VE-BEND" meaning "break it and reattach
it" implying that the original text is first broken and then
restructured. This is the process of "anagrammatizing" Turkish words
and phrases that I have been talking about. This revelation by you
supports me completely when I say that the Indo-European and Semitic
languages are manufactured from Turkish words and phrases but
disguised to hide this fact. For example in this anagram, compare the
following with each other:

Sanskrit ANU versus Turkish ONU meaning "it";

Sanskrit BANDHA versus Turkish BEND (baglamak, dizmek, bend etmek,
eklemek) meaning "to tie, to attach, to fasten as in the links of a
chain"; and

Sanskrit KARANA versus Turkish KIRIN meaning "you break".

These correspondences cannot be due to coincidence.


You also wrote:

> This view point gets additional support from
> the quote 4, where in the meaning of the word is referred to as
> 'Bull'. The alluding of the Cow and bull in relation to the divine
> speech is a popular metaphor in Vedic sanskrit. And the word 'Go'(
> =cow), 'Vak' (=speech), 'Vrushabha'(=bull) are linked sacred
> concepts in Vedic tradition. Fire God Agni is represented with
> the 'Bull' just as Shiva is represented.

POLAT KAYA: The name AGNI being "Fire God" is also interesting. AGNI
suspiciousely looks like an anagram of Turkish phrase "GIN O" (GÜN O
or O GÜN) meaning "it is Sun". Of course in ancient Turanian
traditions, the Sun (OGUZ or TUR) has been represented with the "bull"
icon. Having these concepts present in Indian religious texts, is
another evidence that the ancient India was a land where the ancient
Turanian sky-God religion was widely worshipped. It is no wonder that
INDIA is also called by the Turkish name HINDUSTAN. This is not a
coincidence.

Based on your writing, K. Loganathan, by misjudgement, countered me by
the fallacious conclusion that you also think Turkish is derived from
Sanskrit. Of course that is not the case at all. It is the other way around.

And finally, just as a reminder, I wish to bring to your attention the
following misprint where you wrote:

> To support this view I draw attention to Polkat Kayas post quote (2)
> placed below.

Please note that my name is POLAT KAYA, not "POLKAT KAYAS" as you have
written. Thank you.


REFERENCES:

[1] Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Fifth Edition, 1947, p. 122.
[2] Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Fifth Edition, 1947, p. 1174.


Best wishes to you and to all,

Polat Kaya

07/01/2005

The reader is cordially invited to visit Polat Kaya Library for other
writings at URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Polat_Kaya/



Kamil KARTAL wrote:
>
> From: "K.Loganathan" <ulagankmy@y...>
> Date: Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:43 pm
> Subject: Fwd: Turkish-Sumerian kinship" -Vedic Sanskrit to Turanin
> links- Deivation of TUR
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: BVK Sastry
> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:27:25 -0500
> Subject: Turkish-Sumerian kinship" -Vedic Sanskrit to Turanin links-
> Deivation of TUR
> To: "'Polat Kaya'" <t...@C...>, <bharatv...@yahoogroups.com>,
> <tolkaappiyar@googlegroups.com>
>
> Namaste,
>
> With reference to the interesting post of Polat Kaya and specifically
> the two extracts below, I place the following observations and leads
> for further suggestions:
>
> For the time being keep the hypothesis that Vedic Sanskrit is a
> derived, fabricated language from sumero tamil as a favorite thought
> presented in this group. Please look at the presentation from the
> view point- Vedic Sanskrit is the real proto language from which the
> later languages could have evolved. And see how Turanin concepts
> come from Vedic Sanskrit. Unless one goes to positively establish
> that turanin is the source of vedic sanskrit vocabulary, grammar and
> concepts, the alternative presented here is the line of exploration.
> The support for this is the movement of the languages from Bharat-->
> central asia--> outbound countries and cultures. The effort to
> systemiacally derive the Vedic Sanskrit--> Turanina/Turk--> akkadian-
> -> Sumerian languges on the lines of 'an-grmmativcal approach' which
> is technically called the 'anubandha' approach in Sanskrit with well
> defined rules and process need to be explored.
>
> QUOTES FOR POLAT KAYA:
>
> <Evidently the name TUR and its derivatives were suppressed so badly
> that they and many other Turkish words had no chance of being read
> and recognized as Turkish.>
>
> <All of these references and the footnote by C. J. Gadd point to
> MARDUK as an artificially generated name designed as a replacement
> for the Turkish name TUR or TURDUK. It is like replacing one
> person's name, say ABC, with another name, say XYZ, and thus
> completely erasing ABC from the records. Clearly this has taken
> place by this fraudulent changeover.>
>
> Suggested derivation in relation to the word of 'TUR' from SAVITRU:
>
> Take the vedic name 'Savitru' meaning one of the forms of the Supreme
> Deity, Sun God, The grammatically derived forms of this leads to the
> expressions - 'sa-vi-tur' in the famous Gayatri mantra found in the
> Vedas. Generally any Ru ending noun when processed according to the
> sanskrit grammar gets the final form 'tur' in some of the case forms.
>
> Example:
>
> Bhraatru (Brother) --> bhraa- tur ( belongs to the brother)
>
> Pitru (Father) --> Pi-tur (belongs to father)
>
> Maatru (mother) --> maa-tur ( belongs to mother)
>
> There are also affixes 'shatur'and 'Trun' which are added to the
> verbal bases in the meaning of 'presently related to, continuously
> associated with'. The resultant phonetic transformations yielding a
> technical noun, ready for further processing do not explicitly point
> to the presence of this affix and related processing, unless one
> looks for it. The multiple processing's allowed in sanskrit to
> derive extended words and meanings allows adding of the 'ka' as
> another affix after this process.
>
> Thus if the vedic sanskrit word 'savtitru' is taken as the base, the
> form 'savitruka' to mean related to sun deity, worshippers of sun
> deity can be derived without any difficulty.
>
> The word 'pitruka' can be derived from the word 'pitur' meaning
> ancestor worshippers;
>
> The word maatruka can be derived from 'maatru', meaning mother
> worshippers, mother goddess worshippers, female goddess worshippers;
> The word bhraatruka' from bhraatru meaning who worship brothers;
>
> With these words pitruka, maatruka, bhrratruka,savitruka, if we
> understand the communities which forged their relation with divinity
> in different formats, the religious identity is clearly established.
>
> The language identity of these groups may have been carried the stamp
> of the 'tur' and 'ka' in their original form; and in the anglicized
> forms, the word 'turkihsh' for this language might have come in to
> practical usage.
>
> The religious beliefs and the way the relation between the supreme
> deity and the humans are conceived in these groups in the above
> relations is a point for further study.
>
> To support this view I draw attention to Polkat Kayas post quote (2)
> placed below. To get at the form of Turanian language, I place one
> more alternative derivation route, which again is linked to the
> famous Gayatri mantra in the Vedas. Gayari mantra has the following
> two words in conjunction 'savitur- varenyam'. The word 'Varenyam' in
> gayatri mantra in vedic sanskrit means 'noblest, desirable, great',
> best'. The total meaning of the word 'savitur- varenyam' is
> the 'noblest, desirable, great', best related to Sun God called
> Savitru'. In the same post Polkat Kaya says 'Tur' means Gods name
> with solar emphasis. From the word 'savitur-varenyam' through the
> dropping of the first and last units of letters leads to '(sa)(vi)
> (tur)- (va)(re)(nyam)' the resultant form is ' (tur)-(re)(nyam)'.
> >From this through the deformed usage the resultant language
> identity of 'tu-ren' might have resulted. This suggested dropping of
> the initial letters and last letters is a technical sanskrit process
> called 'anu-bandha-karana'. It means consciously wrapping the
> required word on the left and right with additional phoneme units
> for protection of the inner core word. This is NOT arbitrary
> linguistic process. This derivation has the elegance of linking the
> meaning of the vedic word and tradition in the derived language
> without any difficulty. This view point gets additional support from
> the quote 4, where in the meaning of the word is referred to as
> 'Bull'. The alluding of the Cow and bull in relation to the divine
> speech is a popular metaphor in Vedic sanskrit. And the word 'Go'(
> =cow), 'Vak' (=speech), 'Vrushabha'(=bull) are linked sacred
> concepts in Vedic tradition. Fire God Agni is represented with
> the 'Bull' just as Shiva is represented.
>
> Regards.
>
> BVK Sastry
>
> Quote -1-
>
> About the name TUR:
>
> The Turkic name TUR or Turk does not appear in Sumerian writings. But
> this appearance is rather false. The name TUR has been suppressed in
> reading Sumerian texts. We have the evidence for this suppression.
> One very important footnote regarding the name TUR has been
> preserved for us by C. J. Gadd. He writes: [2] in footnote III.
> 1: "TUR is read "mar" in the name of this god".
>
> Here he openly says that the term "MAR" is actually the name "TUR"
> of a god, but somehow, due to some "arbitrary convention", TUR is
> not read as TUR but is read as MAR. I am grateful to C. J. Gadd for
> writing this footnote. I must add here that the Turkish word TUR has
> been read as MAR and/or AMAR in the reading of the Sumerian texts.
>
> This reading of course obliterates totally the name TUR from
> translated texts.
>
> Quote 2----
>
> "DINGIR.LUGAL-TUR-DA-DINGIR-RA-NI-IR" and the new English translation
> should have been "To Lugal TUR-ADA, his god" which I will compare
> with the following Turkish expression:
>
> "TENGIR.ULU aGa-AL TUR ATA, TENGIR-ER ER-IN" meaning "God, the Great
> Lord Red TUR Father, The God-Man of man" which refers to the ancient
> Turanian Sky-God Sun-God TUR from which the names Tur, Turk, Turan
> and Turkish come from. When we compare these two expressions side by
> side we get the following picture:
>
> Sumerian: "DINGIR.LUGAL-TUR-DA-DINGIR-RA-NI-IR"
>
> Turkish: "TENGIR.uLU aGa-AL TUR ADA (ATA), TENGIR-ER ER-IN"
>
> where the last suffix IN (UN) is the Turkish suffix for 3rd person
> singular possessive on nouns.
>
> Quote -3-
>
> The Turkish name TUR is also a personification of "bull". In ancient
> Turkish "UT" means "cattle". [3] "UTU-ER" means "male cattle", that
> is, the "bull". But it is also Turkish "UT-U ER" (OD U ER)
> meaning "Fire is that Man" referring to the Sun-God. Thus because of
> the nature of the Turkish language, "UTU-ER" has become "U TUR"
> meaning "He is TUR" referring to the ancient Turanian Sun-God UTU
> and also personifying the Sun-God as a "BULL".