Re: [Nostratica] Response to Polat Kaya's... (Mark Hubey)
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Polat Kaya
Re: Mark Hubey's response dated 24 Temmuz 2003:
Re: [SPAM:61%] [Nostratica] Response to Polat Kaya's...
1. Mark Hubey said:
"Mr. Turhan Tisinli simply asked you to show why this anagramatizing
could not go in the other direction."
Polat Kaya: And I explained that Turkish "ACELE EDER" (ECELE EDER)
could not possibly have been anagrammatized from English "ACCELERATE"
or even Latin "ACELERO" because Turkish is a much more ancient
language than Latin, with roots going back to at least the Sumerian
and Masarian times. I gave a complete answer to your question. So what
is your point in the above comment? I see it purely as a distraction
from the main topic - which is, that I am claiming that many English,
Latin, Greek and other IE words have been manufactured by
anagrammatizing Turkish words and/or phrases. Example, so-called
English word OX is unquestionably and undeniably sourced from Turkish
OKUZ and the bogus letter X is used to hide its Turkish source.
2. Mark Hubey said:
"It is unlikely that "acele' is Turkic. It violates the harmony laws
and likely shows up only in Turkish, Azeri, and those very closely
connected with Arabic."
Polat Kaya: The Turkish form of ACELE, as I pointed out in my
previous response, is ECELE which does meet the Turkish "vowel harmony
rule". This form is used in eastern Anatolia and Azerbaycan. It is
very likely that "ECELE" is Turkic and it is very likely that "Arabic"
got it from Turkic as many Turkish words and phrases have been
anagrammatized into Arabic and then portrayed as Arabic words. In
this forum, I have given many samples of Arabic words that have been
anagrammatized from Turkish.
3. Mark Hubey said:
"OK. This one you got right e.g. Gilgamesh was originally Bilgamesh
and as we know Bilge is Turkic from the root bil (to know). "
Polat Kaya: I am glad that you recognized the fact that BILGAMESH was
Turkish which of course it is. It is also a fact that BILGAMESH was
also Sumerian. Hence it is both Sumerian and Turkish. Thus when
BILGAMESH Epic was being composed some 7000+ years ago, the Turkish
language was there. Additionally, the name BILGAMESH is made up of
three Turkish components: Turkish word "BIL"(to know) + infix "-GA-" +
suffix "-MESH/-MISH" indicating that Turkish grammar was already
developed and in use in those Sumerian times. By the way, if you
were aware that GILGAMESH was originally BILGAMESH and that BILGAMESH
is pure TURKISH, why didn't you or some other linguist come out and
say so? The implication of this knowledge is that Turkish is at least
as old as Sumerian. Is this point not important enough for
Additionally I have already pointed out that even the name GILGAMESH
is an anagrm of Turkish phrase "AGILGAMESH" meaning again the same as
"BILGAMESH". This shows that those who changed BILGAMESH to GILGAMESH
already knew the technique of "anagrammatizing" and were already using
it in order to obliterate Turkish and Sumerian.
Of course the sameness of Sumerian "DINGIR" and Turkish"TENGIR";
Sumerian "ANU" and Turkish "HAN-O" and its anagrammatized form "NOAH"
must not be forgotten either.
4. Mark Hubey said:
"I think prototurkic and or its relatives were spoken in Eastern
Europe and Anatolia etc because I think the prototurkic homeland was
either in southeastern Anatolia or in the steppes between the Urals
and the Turkmen steppes. But the rest don't make sense."
Polat Kaya: On many occasions, I have said over and over that the
ancient world was a Turkish speaking world in Asia, Europe and at
least in North Africa. Similarly their Sky God religion was the
dominant world religion. Thus the Anatolians were Turkic speaking
peoples. The Anatolian language was Turkic before it was altered by
the Greeks after Alexander the Great conquered Anatolia, the Middle
East and ancient Masar. The term "proto-Turkic" is a misnomer.
"Proto"(as in PROTOTYPE or PROTO LANGUAGE), from Greek PROTOS,
denoting first in time or first in model, is an anagram of Turkish
"BIR-ATA" meaning "one father" or "the first father" whether linguists
admit it or not. I know it is very difficult to admit.
Additionally, the Eastern Europe that you refer to has the name
"BALKAN" and "THRACIA". BALKAN is a Turkish word, and THRACIA is an
anagram of Turkish "TURUK OYU" (TÜRK ÖYÜ) meaning "The house/land of
Turks". These names clearly tell you that so-called Eastern Europe
was already inhabited by Turks for thousands of years.
If the prototurkic homeland was southeastern Anatolia, as you think,
that defines the so-called area "Mesopotamia" where many TUR/TURK
peoples settled (and passed by in their migrations) in ancient times
in spite of denials. However, it is the Altays and the rest of Central
Asia that was their homelands. Over thousands of years they spread out
of that motherland in all directions (e.g., other parts of Asia,
Europe, Anatolia, Middle East, Northern Africa). All Turanian
migrations towards Arabistan peninsula and North Africa, whether by
south of Caspian Sea (i.e., through Iran) or North of Caspian Sea
(i.e., through Caucasus mountains and through Eastern Anatolia) meet
at this point, that is, Eastern Anatolia and Mesopotamia.
Saying "but the rest don't make sense" is evasive and does not make
sense itself. Read it again. Surely when the concept is not known by
the reader and the knowledge is lacking, things do not make sense.
For example, you felt comfortable in recognizing "BILGAMESH because
you knew it.
5. Regarding the ancient Masarians when I called them TUR/TURK
peoples, Mark Hubey said:
"These people would be the Hyksos. And they did have a city called
Abaris (Avaris) and they could be connected with the Turkic Apars. But
the movement could have been from the Mideast to the steppes. There is
much that is unknown."
Polat Kaya: No they were not the Hyksos. What I am saying is quite
different. The HYKSOS were much later incoming Turkish groups and
were not the original Tur Masarians who established the longest living
Tur/Turk state in human history, that is, the MASAR/MISIR (so-called
"EGYPT"). HYKSOS constituted only a short period of that very
long-lived TUR MASAR Empire (the XIV to XVII dynasties inclusive i.e.,
1786 to 1567 B.C.. The original ancient Masarians were the ones that
came from Central Asia. Most likely they were the SAKA group (about
3300 B.C.) which is also obvious from the name SKA (SAKA) of the
second king of the ancient MISIR/MASAR. SAKA Turks are also known to
be the ancient Turkish people and ancestors of Turks. The name is
still preserved in the name of SAKA (Yakut) Turks in Asia.
Even the name "SCAMANDER" of TROY in Homer's Iliad is nothing but the
Turkish name "SAKAMAN DERE" meaning "The Brook of Sakaman". It is
presently known as "Menderes Çayi". The name "Sakaman" is very similar
to the name "Türkmen" (Turkoman). Of course the name TROY is nothing
but the Turkish "TUR-ÖY" meaning the "House of TUR".
You are right in connecting the name of Hyksos with the name of
Turkish "APARS/AVARS" peoples, because of the fact that they built a
city by the name "AVARIS" in lower Egypt as you also pointed out.
Their remnants AVARS went all the way to Eastern and Central Europe
and established the Turkish AVAR Empire. The name "BAVARIA" in
Germany is named after them.
For everyone's information, Hyksos also built the city of "Jerusalem"
("Kudus", coming from Turkish KUT + US meaning "Sacred Wisdom" and
referring to the ancient Turanian Sky-God - which is probably why the
place is regarded as such a holy site [Encyclopaedia Brittanica (EB)
1963, Vol., 12, p. 9 under "Hyksos"]. The name Hyksos has many Turkish
meanings embedded in it. Embedding the name or attributes of Sky God
in a title was the Turanian tradition in ancient times. HYKSOS were
OGUZ people as their name indicates ("OGUZUS" meaning "we are the OGUZ
people), The Greek letter "H" is actually Greek "eta" (pronounced s
I) and Y is really a U, thus forming the name "IUKSOS", which when
rearranged as "OKUSIS" becomes the Turkish phrase "OKUSIS" (OGUZUS).
The HYKSOS are also known as the "Shepherd Kings".
6. Mark Hubey said:
"No evidence of writing at that time can be found in Central Asia
unless the Soviets decided to eradicate them."
Polat Kaya: Recently Russians disclosed evidences of ancient writing
(dated from about 4000 B.C. if I am not mistaken) found in
Turkmenistan. I believe it was also printed in this group. Evidently,
Soviets kept it very secret for a long time.
7. Regarding "proto" being an anagram of Turkish "Bir Ata", Mark
"It is possible that "proto" can be connected with words like
"primary", prima, prime, parma, etc and may be connected and thus
could be conneced with "bir" (one). "
Polat Kaya: As I stated many times, the term "proto" is an anagram of
Turkish "Bir-Ata". Many words IN ENGLISH starting with "pr", "pre" and
"pro" are related to the Turkish word "BIR" (PIR). BIR is the name of
number 1 in the Turkish numbering system. Similarly names like
"primary", prima, prime, parma, etc. are all derivatives of Turkish
"BIR" meaning "ONE" or "first in line". They are all related to the
name of the ancient Turanian creator Sky-Father-God "BIR O"
meaning "He is the only ONE". The Etruscan numeral name for "1" is
also "PR" from Turkish "PIR/BIR". The Latin name for ordinal numeral
1 is PRIMUS which is again from Turkish word for ordinal number
1 "BIRIMSI" (BIRIMCI, BIRINCI). The Egyptian Kings (so-called
PHARAOHS) deified themselves with the title of "PERU" (BIR-O).
Additionally their palace was called "PIR-OY" (BIR-OY) meaning "the
first house" which is pure Turkish. A pharaoh's palace is always
the "First House" like the "Top Kapi" of the Ottomans and the "White
House" of the USA. All these indicate how Turkic the ancient
The term "proto" as used in English means "first in time", "first in
rank". Similarly "BIR-ATA", being the name of "Sky-God", is "first in
time" and "first in rank". The creator BIR-ATA, having created "man"
in his own image, as the ancient people regarded so, would be the
first model of man - in other words "the first man" or "the first
father". When TUR Masarians, so-called ancient "Egyptians," called
their creator sky-god by the name "AMEN" they named it in Turkish
meaning "O-MEN" ("He is Me" and also "I am Him"). When we replace
the A in AMEN with its numerical value of 1, we get Turkish "BIR MEN"
which again describes the Sky God. For the Pharoah, "BIR MEN" was
expressing his highness in rank in Turkish - which was their language.
Best wishes to all,
July 27, 2003