Re: Gobekli Tepe Carbon Dating Question / Opinion on Relationship to Abydos Findings  
 
(This was in response to a query from a reader regarding my paper on ancient  "Göbekli Tepe" civilization). 
 
 
By Polat Kaya
 
 
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Dear Greg Stafford,

Thank you for writing to me.  

1.    Regarding your first question, according to what has been reported, it seems that the carbon dating technique was used on some samples of charcoal and also some organic material that was found on the stones. In this regard, a writing of Wikipedia gives the following information at url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe#Dating :

"The PPN A settlement has been dated to c. 9000 BC. There are remains of smaller houses from the PPN B and a few epipalaeolithic finds as well.

There are a number of radiocarbon dates (presented with one standard deviation errors and calibrations to BC):
Lab-Number     Date BP     Cal BC     Context
Ua-19561     8430 ± 80     7560–7370     enclosure C
Ua-19562     8960 ± 85     8280–7970     enclosure B
Hd-20025     9452 ± 73     9110–8620     Layer III
Hd-20036     9559 ± 53     9130–8800     Layer III

The Hd samples are from charcoal in the lowest levels of the site and would date the active phase of occupation. The Ua samples come from pedogenic carbonate coatings on pillars and only indicate a time after the site was abandoned."


 

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2.    Your second question is an important one, hence, we need to dwell on it extensively. Regarding the seated birds and scorpions carved on the stones of Gobekli Tepe and also on ivory findings at Abydos, my views  are as follows:  

Among the Göbekli Tepe stones, there is one stone that has five large and one small sitting birds and also a picture of a boar.  The sitting birds, in my view, are "geese" and they seem to be sitting in a yard where the floor has been finished with irregular shaped stones that make up a front or back yard similar to an Anatolian village house (the picture reminds me of my village and the house of my parents where we used to have many geese - it was part of the house economy).  If indeed they are geese as shown on the stone picture below, then it is very important.  First of all, the Turkish name for "goose" is KAZ (GAZ).  And I must point out that the English terms GOOSE and GEESE are nothing but anagrammatized forms of the Turkish name KAZ (GAZ).  

 







One of the stones from Göbekli Tepe with sitting birds
(most likely geese).

 




In the picture above, the upper left corner and also the upper right hand side of the picture show a regularity indicating that the area that the birds are sitting in is man made - where the area is covered with stones very much like cobblestones are used to cover modern streets, and most likely, it is a front yard of a house. In my village we used flat stones to cover a large area. Flat stones were taken from a quarry which had naturally formed flat stones - that we call "LEPIK" (LAPIK) in Turkish. The Latin word LAPIS meaning "stone" (where letter S is actually a replacement for C which is also voiced as a K sound in Latin) is from this Turkish word. In eastern Anatolian villages, this is done to prevent having a muddy front yard.  The picture above from Göbekli Tepe reminded me of this culture in my own village.  This picture seems to indicate that in the ancient civilization of Göbekli Tepe, geese were one of the domesticated birds. This could also be an indication that not only were domesticated geese of different kinds (and other fowl such as chickens) a part of peoples' daily lives in the Göbekli Tepe civilization, but also other domesticated animals such as cattle, sheep, dogs and possibly horses were too.  This would also tell us that they were far beyond the so-called "hunter-gatherer" stage of human develoment. 

It is also important to note, for example, that in the ancient Masarian (so-called "Egyptian") culture, they, too, had domesticated geese, and, they had a "Goose God", [E. A. Wallis Budge, 
"An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary, Volume II, p. 611a] , under the trancribed name of "SERU", [E. A. Wallis Budge, p. 611a], while another entry, transcribed as "SERA", is described as "a kind of goose".  The transcribed name "SERA" must be Turkish word "SARI" meaning "yellow", thus, the goose they are referring to must be the "yellow goose", that is, Turkish "SARI KAZ".   Curiously, the following modern picture also shows sitting "yellow geese"from eastern Anatolia which seems to verify this. 


 





Sitting "yellow geese" (sari kazlar) from Orhan Duz's facebook
 

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Furthermore, again from Wallis Budge's dictionary, we have the ancient Masarian word "QESU" meaning "preserves of birds, goose pens", 
[E. A. Wallis Budge, "An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary", Volume II, p. 778a].  Surely, this word "QESU"transcibed from hieroglyphs written in ancient Masar (Misir) is nothing but a form of the Turkish word "KAZ ÖY" (GAZ DAMI)meaning "goose house" (goose-pen).  The letter "E" in "QESU" is an arbitrary vowel-filling when transcribing ancient "Egyptian" hieroglyphs into Latin lettering. 

In view of all this, it can be confidently said that in the ancient Masarian ("Egyptian") language, the name for "goose" was the same as the Turkish word KAZ (GAZ) indicating that Ancient Masarians were Turkish speaking Turanians!!! Most likely the ancient Sumerians and Masarians, who were also Turanians, had a civilization that was a continuation of the Göbekli Tepe civilization which lived in the Middle East area some 6000 years earlier.   

 

I must also point out that one of the Sun-God's names in ancient Turanian language was O KÖZ, O GÖZ, OGUZ, OKUZ.  Theancient Masarian name "GAZ God" fits right into this category of Turkish names for the ancient sky-god deity.  In fact, we see that this GAZ (Goose) hieroglyphic symbol is present in the cartouche titles of many ancient Masarian kings, that is, PERU  (PHARAOH).  The name PERU is the Turkish "BIR O" meaning "Only One, the God" - while the supposedly Semitic name"PHARAOH" is just an anagram of the Turkish name "BIR O".

 

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In my paper about the Göbekli Tepe findings, there is one stone that had the carved picture of a bull, a wolf and a heron.  I identified them in Turkish as OKUZ (the bull, ox), as BÖRY (KURT) the wolf and as TURNA (heron) respectively.  I pointed out their sacredness in the Turanian culture. In addition to this, there is another Göbekli Tepe stone that bears the carved picture of a lion. Thus, I believe that the picture of a "scorpion" on some stones was also a very important one in the context of their Sun-god worshipping religion. 

Since the names of Bull, Lion and Scorpion are associated with the zodiac names at present, it is likely that these animal names were also associated with the sky deities at the time of Göbekli Tepe civilization.  This would make these animal names and their images on stone as a form of communication among peoples and also a way of passing on their religious ideas to each other and also to future generations by carving their images on stone.  

Furthermore, in ancient hieroglyphic writings of ancient Masar ("Egypt"), the following transcribed words are given: 

The word 
EṬṬ  meaning "scorpion", EṬṬIT meaning "the scorpion-goddess", and  EṬI  meaning "the flying sun-disk",[E. A. Wallis Budge, "An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary, Volume I, p. 522a].

a)    The word 
EṬṬ  can be read as Turkish "AĞIDI-aDi" meaning "its name is poison" which a scorpion is.  

b)    The word 
EṬṬIT  can be read as Turkish "AĞADI-ADI" meaning "his/her/its name is Lord" which refers to a "scorpion-goddess" 

c)    The word 
EṬI  can be read as Turkish "AĞADI" meaning "it is the Lord" which is the Sun God. 

Turkish word "AĞI" means "poison", AĞA means "Lord" 

These readings show that words appearing similar in format can be read in different ways with changing meanings where each reading may describe a different concept in Turkish. 

Again here, we see that the name of scorpion is associated with the Sky-God deity the Sun. I believe, this view would also be valid in the case of the "scorpion king" writing on ivory findings of Abydos.

 

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Presently, the Turkish name for "scorpion" is "AKREP". I believe this name is an ancient name for scorpion in Turkish.Interestingly, this name read from right to left is "PERKA" which is a form of the Turkish expression "BIR AKA" (BIR A
ĞA)meaning "One Lord" which is a definition of the Sky-God in Turanian civilization.  Again, this shows that the name AKREP, that is, "scorpion", was also associated with the name of God, hence it was sacred. For that reason, one would think that the "scorpion" was also included among the "zodiac" names as is done presently.  Thus, this insect was regarded as "sacred" by the ancient Turanians because its name suggested a relation with the Sky-God and Sun-God concepts.  In this context, we must note that the use of scorpion is very much like the sacred use of the black dung beetle, (the so-called "scarab beetle" or the "Scarabaeus sacer") since it was also used as an insignia of the Sun-God in ancient Masarian (MISIR) religion.  This "scarab" insignia was usurped from Turanian Masarians by the Christian clergy and has been used up to present times as a very important religious symbol, for example, as a Papal coat of Arms! 

 

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To add to our discussion, I would also like to dwell now on the name "scorpion" and its variations. This is because the name "scorpion" and its variations are embedded with a number of Turkish expressions which are hidden from the eyes of "scholars" - and they are very relevant to our discussion.  Let me show you what I mean by this:

The Greek name for "scorpion" is given as "SKORPIOS" and is also in the form of SKORPAINA that means "sea scorpion". 

a)    The Greek name SKORPIOS
, rearranged letter-by-letter as 
"OKROPISS", is found to be an anagram of the Turkish expression "AKREPIZ" meaning "we are scorpion".  Thus, this definition in Turkish identifies this insect with the Turkish nameAKREP indicating that its ancient and original name was actually in Turkish, although, it has been altered and anagrammatized into a supposedly "Greek" name.  

b)    Alternatively, the Greek name SKORPIOS, rearranged letter-by-letter as 
"PIR-O-KOSS", is found to be an anagram of a Turkish expression that has multiple meanings.  The deciphered name "PIR-O-KOSS" is in the following Turkish forms:

a)    "BIR-O KÖZ" meaning "One sky God is fire", where BIR O is a name for the Sky-God and the Sun-God.

b)    
"BIR O KÖZ" meaning "Only He is fire", that is, the Sun, 

c)    
"BIR O GÖZ" meaning "Only He is the Eye" which is again the Sun because the sun was regarded as the "fire eye of the Sky-God". 

d)    
"BIR OGUZ" meaning "One Oguz" where OGUZ is a name of the ancient Turanian Sky-God, Sun-God and Moon-god and is also an ancestral name of the Turanian Tur/Turk/Oguz peoples, and 

e)    
"BIR OKÖZ" meaning "One Bull (god)" which again refers to ancient Turanian sky-deities as "Bull". It is known that God concept was also identified with a bull personification in ancient times.

Again these definitions of "scorpion" in Turkish associate "scorpion" to all of the following: Sky-God; Sun-God; Moon-God; the sacred ancestral God name OGUZ; God the Bull Oguz; and the Tur/Turk/Oguz peoples of Turanians.


 

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Now let us understand the Greek name SKORPAINA meaning "sea scorpion". 

a)    First of all, the Greek word SKORPAINA, rearranged letter-by-letter as 
"SO-AKRAPI-N", is found to be an anagram of the Turkish expression "SU AKREPI" (SU AKREBI) meaning "water scorpion" or "sea scorpion".  This definition in Turkish is in perfect agreement with the given Greek definition, but it also shows that the name SKORPAINA has been made up from Turkish insect name "SU AKREPI".  So, initially, it was in Turkish and also Turanian! 

b)    Additionally, the Greek word SKORPAINA, rearranged letter-by-letter as "PIR-KONAS-A", is found to be an anagram of the Turkish expression "BIR GÜNEŞ O" meaning "it is one sun" - which again refers to the ancient Turanian Sun-God who is the source of light and heat for everything in its corner of the sky. Thus, we find that this Turkish expression also relates the scorpion name to the concept of SUN indicating that the "scorpion" was regarded as sacred in ancient times and it was in the Turkish language!

Turkish BIR means "one" and GÜNEŞ means "sun", SU means "water" and AKREP means "scorpion" 

So these two decipherments of the Greek word SKORPAINA and the Latin word SCORPION, show that these names were actually made up from a Turanian linguistic source that related this insect linguistically to the sun in ancient Turkish.  This would make this insect a sacred one in the eyes of the ancient Turanian peoples who worshiped the sun. I say this would be one likely reason why they carved the image of a scorpion on ancient stones, ivory or other medium - and also put it amongst the zodiac names.  Also, this may be a pictorial way of communicating religious concepts among themselves as well.

Of course, even the Latin names "SCORPION" and "SCORPIONIS" provide us with similar results in Turkish.

c)    The Latin word SKORPION, rearranged letter-by-letter as "PIR-KONOS", is also found to be an anagram of the Turkish expression "BIR GÜNEŞ" meaning "one sun". Turkish BIR means "one" and GÜNEŞ means "sun".


d)    Similarly, the Latin word SKORPIONIS, rearranged letter-by-letter as "PIR-KONISS-O", is also found to be an anagram of the Turkish expression "BIR GÜNEŞ O" meaning "it is one sun" 

These two Latin names verify that they were made up from Turkish and also that they were associated with the ancient Turanian Sun-God - which provides light and heat to all in its corner of space. 


In this regard, if I may, I would like to suggest seeing my paper at url http://www.polatkaya.net/zodiac.htm, where I discuss the zodiac names. 

In view of all this, it can be said that the scorpion was regarded as a sacred animal due to the fact that the names given to it related it to the Sun God in Turkish - and that this fact was a means of religious communication and knowledge transfer amongst people. 


This also implies that the mono syllabic Turkish language was the most ancient and highly developed language of the ancient world - and that the names of many things were already determined in Turkish and those names were known to people in general in the world-wide language of Turkish. This vocabulary included the names of people such as family members, people of the community, animals of daily life and the names of environmental points of importance such as mountains, rivers, lakes, seas, etc.  and, of course, the Sun, the Moon, the Earth and the Sky-God concept, that is, GÖK TANRI in Turkish!

 

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People can communicate with each other about things only if they have mutually known names for things that they want to talk about.  Without a name, no concept, physical or abstract, can be explained.  Thus, names are extremely important in having a language and in communicating "knowledge" among people!  So, contrary to the rather vilifying views of modern "scholars" about the ancient peoples, I believe that the ancient people were just as smart as we are today, except that they solved their problems in different ways with different technology. 


Additionally, the Göbekli Tepe findings tell us that the ancient world was a far more advanced civilization than what modern man thinks they were.  Modern man has been manipulated by some special interest groups of late religious establishments to think that ancient peoples were just hunter-gatherers who knew nothing else but that!  Of course, this kind of "propaganda" would be for the benefit of the newly established religions that never explained the true identity of that which they are advocating people to believe.  For them, the secrecy of things (from people) was of primary importance as it would insure their own security and enable the spread of their new 'religious' ideas under the guise of mythological names and personifications that aimed to get rid of the old world-wide religion of Turanians (based on sun, moon and sky-god deities) and the knowledge that their ancestors produced. In order o erase that ancient civilization so-called "paganism", they said, for example, in Isaiah 65:17 "For here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart".
 With this kind of all dominating religious pronouncements, scholars were put under restrictions in understanding the true picture of the ancient world.

In summary, these are my views regarding your questions. Thank you again for writing and I wish you the best of luck in your studies of the ancient civilizations and writings.


Sincerely yours,

Polat Kaya

Note:  I will also put this discussion into my Polat Kaya library, my polatkaya.net site and a few of my other sites.  I hope you do not mind.

30/07/2011




Greg Stafford wrote:  

Hello, Mr. Kaya:
 
My name is Greg Stafford and I study ancient civilizations and writings.

I want to first thank you for your writings and views on the findings at
Gobekli Tepe. I also wanted to ask you about the methods and means of dating
the findings, specifically, what material has been tested to determine the
proposed dates since, as I understand it, stone cannot be carbon dated. If
that is the case here, then what is it that has been so tested to arrive at
the 9,000 - 13,500 year old dates for the Gobekli Tepe stones?

Also, I have been studying the ivory tags found in the tomb at Abydos, some
of which show seated birds, which also appear to be shown on some of the
stones at Gobekli Tepe. Further, there are scorpions shown at Gobekli Tepe,
and also in the area surrounding the findings at Abydos, specifically, in
reference to the "Scorpion King." Typically, the ivory tag and other
findings at Abydos are seen as hieroglyphs. I wonder, then, if we also have
at Gobekli Tepe similarly "hieroglyphs, or if at both locations we have, in
fact, pictograms or image inscriptions communicating similar beliefs. 

If you have time, I would greatly appreciate any information you can provide
on the carbon dating of the findings at Gobekli Tepe, and then also your
opinion on the possible link between what we see on the stones there in
comparison to similar images on the ivory tags and stone images found at
Abydos. 

Thank you for your time and consideration to the above.

 
Best regards,

Greg Stafford